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Thread: Town Meeting Blues

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHBernstein View Post
    The provision of on-site child care has repeatedly been proposed as a way to improve Town Meeting attendance. This would be more practical if Town Meeting were held on weekend afternoons.

    Dave
    This seems like a nice idea, but you can see where it breaks down pretty quickly - parents don't like to keep young kids out until 10:30pm (or 11:30 or midnight...) on any night of the week, much less school nights.

    Weekend afternoons are difficult for families who want to spend their weekends together, and who have days full of activities.

    If we truly want broader participation, I think the best solutions are going to involve shortening Town Meeting overall and/or enabling remote participation.

  2. #32
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    Completely agree with you Kim, but the noisy minority won't be happy if the silent majority suddenly find their voices. The current setup is too convenient for a small subset of the population to give up by enabling young families to participate in shaping our town. I've advocated for remote voting since I moved into Wayland 20 years ago, and the answers I've always gotten are poor excuses that amount to simply not wanting to make it work. Will it be easy to do? Nope. Is it worth it? Well, I guess that depends on who you ask.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Reichelt View Post
    This seems like a nice idea, but you can see where it breaks down pretty quickly - parents don't like to keep young kids out until 10:30pm (or 11:30 or midnight...) on any night of the week, much less school nights.
    That's why I said providing on-site child care would only be practical if Town Meetings were held on weekend afternoons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Reichelt View Post
    Weekend afternoons are difficult for families who want to spend their weekends together, and who have days full of activities.
    That's their choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Reichelt View Post
    If we truly want broader participation, I think the best solutions are going to involve shortening Town Meeting overall and/or enabling remote participation.
    I've posted several suggestions for improving the efficiency of Town Meeting that emerged from Moderator-led "Town Meeting Improvement" committees in which I've participated over the past several years. Most require action from the Selectmen.

    I've also posted the technical challenges that remote participation would have to overcome, and wont' repeat them here.
    Last edited by DHBernstein; 04-21-2014 at 10:36 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Rosenblatt View Post
    Completely agree with you Kim, but the noisy minority won't be happy if the silent majority suddenly find their voices. The current setup is too convenient for a small subset of the population to give up by enabling young families to participate in shaping our town.
    ~1800 Waylanders attended the Town Meeting at which the Town Center was approved, so significantly broader participation is demonstrably possible with appropriate communication and motivation. If you can't motivate those who share your views to attend Town Meeting, that's your failure; demonizing "the evil other side" is dishonest, and exacerbates Wayland's already too-toxic political atmosphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Rosenblatt View Post
    I've advocated for remote voting since I moved into Wayland 20 years ago, and the answers I've always gotten are poor excuses that amount to simply not wanting to make it work. Will it be easy to do? Nope. Is it worth it? Well, I guess that depends on who you ask.
    Excellent! Your post must mean that you have practical solutions to the problems of large-scale proxy voting and vulnerability to denial-of-service and other internet-borne attacks. Please describe your solutions here.

  5. #35
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    "That's their choice". Seriously. And you think I'm demonizing "the evil other side"? I think you did it for me.

    My solutions for remote voting are not "my" solutions. They are well established, and used broadly across many different applications. I'm sure Mr. Alan Reiss can enlighten you in your ELVIS club as to what they are. It's not easy, it's not foolproof, but it exists, and has been used quite successfully. Figure it out DH. You're a bright fellow.

    (That's their choice. Wow. How easy was that?)

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Rosenblatt View Post
    "That's their choice". Seriously. And you think I'm demonizing "the evil other side"? I think you did it for me.
    If Town Meeting dates were set months in advance, and were held on weekend afternoons with reliable on-site childcare, on what basis could a parent claim "exclusion"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Rosenblatt View Post
    My solutions for remote voting are not "my" solutions. They are well established, and used broadly across many different applications. I'm sure Mr. Alan Reiss can enlighten you in your ELVIS club as to what they are. It's not easy, it's not foolproof, but it exists, and has been used quite successfully. Figure it out DH. You're a bright fellow.
    Translation: your bluff was called, and you have no idea what you're talking about.

  7. #37
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    I retract my "You're a bright fellow" comment. Clearly you have no idea.

    "That's their choice". Still can't believe you're that out of touch with reality. Even if you have no kids (hopefully true in this case), you must know people who do. You think that the kids soccer, hockey, dance, baseball, music lessons, recitals, community work, (need I go on) care about when the insignificant Wayland Town Hall meeting is held? They do not, and parents (at least the ones that are good at their job) will ALWAYS put family in front of skanky town politics - as well they should.

    That's their choice.

    Wow.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Rosenblatt View Post
    I retract my "You're a bright fellow" comment. Clearly you have no idea.

    "That's their choice". Still can't believe you're that out of touch with reality. Even if you have no kids (hopefully true in this case), you must know people who do. You think that the kids soccer, hockey, dance, baseball, music lessons, recitals, community work, (need I go on) care about when the insignificant Wayland Town Hall meeting is held? They do not, and parents (at least the ones that are good at their job) will ALWAYS put family in front of skanky town politics - as well they should.

    That's their choice.

    Wow.
    Deciding how best to allocate the Town's resources has a significant impact on its children. If Town Meeting sessions were held on weekend afternoons with reliable child care provided, parents would be free to decide whether to better serve their children by participating in Town Meeting or by participating in activities such as those you mention above. The need to pay a babysitter in order to participate in Town Meeting, cited earlier in this thread, would be eliminated.

  9. #39
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    Have you ever changed your mind or retracted a stupid comment? Must be amazingly comforting to always be right.

    Perhaps rather than force parents to choose between children having friends and participating in sports (with their parents present to provide support), you could envision a solution that wouldn't involve forcing them (not you, mind you, them) to make that choice. You are a narrow minded, selfish person if you can't see that. As I said in the other thread, you are clearly SO much smarter than I am, that there's no point in continuing the banter. I'm out.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Rosenblatt View Post
    Have you ever changed your mind or retracted a stupid comment? Must be amazingly comforting to always be right.

    Perhaps rather than force parents to choose between children having friends and participating in sports (with their parents present to provide support), you could envision a solution that wouldn't involve forcing them (not you, mind you, them) to make that choice. You are a narrow minded, selfish person if you can't see that. As I said in the other thread, you are clearly SO much smarter than I am, that there's no point in continuing the banter. I'm out.
    You jump into threads like this one so you can toss a few bombs and insults; when called on it, you slide away on slimy sarcasm.

    Perhaps the constructive discussion re improving Town Meeting can continue.

  11. #41
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    Default Some interesting ideas and great comments


  12. #42
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    If you think about all of the people who gave up their lives or well-being over the years so we'd be able to vote, it's impossible to not vote.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHBernstein View Post
    If you think about all of the people who gave up their lives or well-being over the years so we'd be able to vote, it's impossible to not vote.
    Except of course if you make voting a 5 day marathon event that no one has the time nor patience to endure. How about the authors comment on e-voting:

    Quote Originally Posted by yahoo article View Post
    (And before all you professors send me mail again telling me how the Internet can't even protect your credit card, much less protect your vote from Chinese hackers, let me just say: Yes, I know, online voting can never be as failsafe as, say, the days when we trusted some guy in Chicago to count up a box full of paper ballots and take them in his trunk to the county office. But I think we can figure it out.)
    Love it!

    :-)

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Rosenblatt View Post
    Except of course if you make voting a 5 day marathon event that no one has the time nor patience to endure.
    Hundreds of Wayland citizens participated in last month's 4-session Annual Town Meeting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Rosenblatt View Post
    How about the authors comment on e-voting:
    Love it!
    You continue to ignore the ease with which hackers could outright prevent all voting from home with a denial-of-service attack.

  15. #45
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    For those readers wondering what "denial of service attack" means, here's an explanation.

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