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  1. #1
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    Default Crier column by David Watkins

    I agree, Texting Wayland to 33733 is a great way for people to both know what is going on and, when pressed for time, getting there for the article you want to vote in. But remember you will have parking and check-in to deal with and this takes time. If a vote is currently taking place and you are still in line checking in, then as has always been at town meeting (electronic or not), you will not be able to vote until after that vote has taken place. So getting there at the last minute for a specific vote should be front-ended with an appropriate amount of buffer time to make sure you can actually vote in the one you care about.

    A comment in the David Watkins texting description was as follows:

    “there is no reason in this day and age why people who cannot be present physically at the Wayland High School gymnasium for the whole meeting are excluded from participating in our most democratic process”

    I believe that this comment refers to the desire to have internet voting either by computer or mobile while being remote from the physical arena.

    Certainly, if there was a technically secure and non proxy assured way to do this then this would be ideal. Some people may want to show up in the arena (and perhaps those would be the ones who could speak at the microphone) while others who can’t be at the meeting - could vote from home. Sort of like electronic voting on ‘steroids’ !

    So here are the three challenges which make this difficult to do:

    (Per Dave Bernstein)
    1. It would be a violation of Massachusetts State Law, which requires physical presence in order to vote at a Town Meeting

    2. Without biometric sensors, there’d be no way to prevent voters from giving their proxy to other voters

    3. Any scheme that involves the internet for communications would be susceptible to hacking


    The first reason is the least difficult. Its non-technical and would require a political solution.

    The second reason is very difficult in as much as it would require seemingly expensive biometric equipment, associated software and some training. [Fingerprint or Retinal recognition techniques]

    This is the proxy voting issue where (as an example): there are 3 registered voters at one address and two of them are not available anywhere to vote. One of the 3 registered voters casts votes for him/her self and the other two through the night (assuming only using a passworded system). One person then gets 3 votes. Even if the other two voters gave their permission and that one proxy voter ‘knows’ how the others would vote - we should want and demand that anybody who votes actually and physically votes for themselves.

    A similar concern has existed with electronic voting in the arena. We discourage proxy voting by having the ability to issue one keypad per person present and discouraging proxy voting through rule and observation. It seems to work well in Wayland and has gotten better during the last 2 years of electronic voting usage.

    The third reason is not trivial. Once the voting occurs over the internet - its highly suseptible to attack and security is, again, expensive and may not be full-proof.

    But all of this said - if there are any known solutions or ideas along these lines then please let us know !

  2. #2
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    FYI, here's the link to the David Watkins piece in the Town Crier.

    1. As you note, MA state law can be changed.

    2. My notebook computer has a fingerprint sensor. I wonder if this could be employed to give assurance that the vote case was my own. Of course, nothing would prevent one person from swiping their fingerprint while another actually presses the key to make the vote. If the time between swipe and vote is sufficiently short (1 minute), would that be satisfactory?

    3. Given how much money flows around the world (securely, one presumes), is the Internet security side of the equation all that hard to solve? What would be easier to compromise--the current electronic voting system that could well have the same flaws as the Diebold voting machines, or the Internet?

    All of these strike me as being solvable. Arguably, 1 would be the hardest, not 2 or 3.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJReiss View Post
    2. Without biometric sensors, there’d be no way to prevent voters from giving their proxy to other voters

    The second reason is very difficult in as much as it would require seemingly expensive biometric equipment, associated software and some training. [Fingerprint or Retinal recognition techniques]

    This is the proxy voting issue where (as an example): there are 3 registered voters at one address and two of them are not available anywhere to vote. One of the 3 registered voters casts votes for him/her self and the other two through the night (assuming only using a passworded system). One person then gets 3 votes. Even if the other two voters gave their permission and that one proxy voter ‘knows’ how the others would vote - we should want and demand that anybody who votes actually and physically votes for themselves.

    A similar concern has existed with electronic voting in the arena. We discourage proxy voting by having the ability to issue one keypad per person present and discouraging proxy voting through rule and observation. It seems to work well in Wayland and has gotten better during the last 2 years of electronic voting usage.
    Don't we have precisely the same issue with absentee balloting? We have had absentee balloting (based on my quick Google search) for the past 150 years. We allow absentee balloting because we know the importance of the right to vote, and we don't want people to disenfranchised because they are unable to be physically present. There was a letter in the Crier this past week from someone who was unable to attend because of physical disabilities. While he and I didn't agree on the issues he discussed generally, we do agree that it would be preferable if he could vote.

    I'm sure there could be ways devised around your problem. Perhaps tying the voting rights to a specific voting device (such as a phone) that one might not want to leave with others. Or having a short enough window, during which a code needed to be entered for each voter prior to each vote, making it impractical for a voter to vote for multiple people.

    I'm sure there are technical solutions to this problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJReiss View Post

    3. Any scheme that involves the internet for communications would be susceptible to hacking

    The third reason is not trivial. Once the voting occurs over the internet - its highly suseptible to attack and security is, again, expensive and may not be full-proof.
    Internet voting is clearly coming; it's already taking place. This upcoming election in Canada will be voted on strictly over the internet.

    This article notes that in 2010 (2010!!), 44 of 444 Ontario municipalities offered internet or telephone voting or both for their elections.


    Quote Originally Posted by AJReiss View Post
    1. It would be a violation of Massachusetts State Law, which requires physical presence in order to vote at a Town Meeting

    The first reason is the least difficult. Its non-technical and would require a political solution.
    The issue of it simply being outside of our current laws is the first one to tackle, because there's no point in investing resources to tackle the other two if you can't do it anyway. I disagree that this is the least difficult - I think you are overestimating the technical challenges (which have already largely been met) and underestimating the political ones (which are notorious for taking more time and energy than one expects).

    In any event, I agree generally on your three challenges, and hope that we will meet them, and be able to offer this alternative in the near future.

  4. #4
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    Kim, great point about absentee ballots. A fingerprint swipe or facial recognition via web cam within a short period of time prior to the vote would raise fewer concerns.

  5. #5
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    As it happens, I just received an email from the Boston TechBreakfast group that included mention of Authentik Time, which has biometric authentication.

  6. #6
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    For the record - I'm very much in favor of expanding the universe of possible voters at Wayland TM by using sound, proven and appropriate technology. My own ideal would be a set of people who physically show up at the arena and who act in all capacities like a participating town meeting; plus a set of people who are technologically enabled to vote remotely but are not allowed to call-in and become part of the active debate. (This are my personal preferences).

    Its also notable that the current scheme of electronic voting is LAN based only. That is; no WAN internet connection. But NOT connecting the voting computers or check-in stations to the WAN internet - we eliminate outside intrusions. The keypads are on a proprietary communication scheme and have a range of about 300 feet.

    E-Voting as implemented in Wayland right now is as much of a 'closed' system as we could have it.

    The finger printing laptop (or even iPhone) idea:
    It can be reprogrammed so its not specific to one person. Not everybody has a laptop or an finger print iPhone etc...
    So those who are missing that hardware would need to get (buy) a substitute and the finger print data would have to be stored in some secure and possible remote way.

    Using absentee ballots:
    Although this idea works great with the polls... since the polls are FIXED with FIXED main motions.
    The idea crumbles against the dynamic and every changing procedural legislature of town meeting.
    Main motions can be tabled, or modified etc... there are also many submotions not accounted for. Advance ballots just won't work in this environment.

    Again, I'm for trying to solve this but we should understand that the actual solutions are daunting and I can imagine (very expensive)...
    But no reason to stop trying.

  7. #7
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    I don't think that Kim's point was to use absentee ballots for Town Meeting. Rather, she was saying that an absentee ballot can be filled out by someone other than the authorized "owner" of that ballot. If we live with that "slack" in the system, we could live with a system that works off of web cam or fingerprints.

  8. #8
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    The ELVIS (Electronic Voting and Implementation Subcommittee) has been meeting occasionally for a number of years.
    We rarely, if ever, have a pubic who wants to speak at public comment. But when we do, we always invite those members of the public to actively join into the meeting.

    Evidently, there is now (somewhat) of a grassroots desire to use technology to expand the scope of who may vote at Wayland's Town Meeting.

    I would respectfully suggest that one or more people contact Dave Bernstein to find out when and where the next ELVIS will occur and to either come to public comment to get onto the agenda. Lets take this discussion to the committee who did write the book on implementing electronic voting in Wayland and - as it turns out - elsewhere.

    www.electronicvoting.info

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Reichelt View Post
    Don't we have precisely the same issue with absentee balloting?
    Yes.

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