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Thread: Question for the DF

  1. #1
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    Question Question for the DF

    A day before the general election, I received an unsolicited e-mail from Grieco and Obar soliciting my support. I replied back to the e-mail asking where they got my e-mail address from, but as of today have not heard back from them. My question to the DF is whether or not others also received e-mail from either (or both) of these candidates, and if anyone has any idea where they may have gotten their mailing list from. If the source is the town (HS mailing list or otherwise), then I have to ask how they managed to get their hands on the list. Unlike some other litigious compatriots, I don't plan on pursuing this, but I am a bit annoyed, and am at the least curious.

    Carl
    Last edited by Carl Rosenblatt; 04-06-2011 at 04:18 PM. Reason: spelling error corrections

  2. #2
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    Carl, if you have no objection, would you mind forwarding me the email? My address is below. In part, I'm geekily interested to know if they used a service like Constant Contact.

    I did NOT receive one, a fact that probably shouldn't surprise anyone. I did, however, circulate my own "please consider voting for X" email by pulling from Waylanders in my address book. I used the "lite" version of Constant Contact supplied by my web host. In my first message a week before the election, I noted in the email body that recipients would only receive one subsequent message. Moreover, recipients were able to use CC's "remove" feature if they didn't wish to get the second one.

    In the case of the Grieco/Obar email, it may be that your name was in the personal address book of one of their supporters, and that they compiled a master list from several such supporters. If so, I don't really find that much beyond the pale as long as the sending address wasn't anonymous.

    Other than the school lists (which I doubt were used), the major email lists that I'm aware of are WaylandeNews (it would surprise me for several reasons if this were the one they used), WVN (which would also surprise me), and youth sports and other activities (ditto). It would rise at least to the level of small scandal if any of these were used.
    Last edited by Jeff Dieffenbach; 04-06-2011 at 04:34 PM. Reason: Clarification.

  3. #3
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    Default Don't We Have Anything Else to Worry About?

    Come on, people? I got e-mails supporting the other side, and I assume my e-mail address came from a sports list, personal address book, etc. No matter who I support, if I don't want it I delete it. In reality, I'm always quite fascinated by what the other side has to say. I even, at times, learn something useful.

    Let's discuss something important now!

  4. #4
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    Really Jeff? Seriously? You don't take privacy very seriously, do you?

    Carl

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    Jeff B., my interest in seeing the email Carl mentioned is for EXACTLY the reason you cited--to perhaps learn something useful, in this case about approaches and tools for getting email messages out effectively.

    As for the discussion of something important, it would take you only a quick look at the "home" page to see conversations on topics as wide-ranging as Latin, public/private sector wages, and Wayland income. I encourage you to join in.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Rosenblatt View Post
    Really Jeff? Seriously? You don't take privacy very seriously, do you?

    Carl
    No Carl, I do. But I don't believe an election missive endorsing one candidate or another is an invasion of privacy. I open the mailbox every day and tear up a ton more junk mail than anything meaningful. I don't run screaming to the Postmaster about that or writing to companies asking where they got my address. Like I said, e-mail is the easiest kind of "mail" to delete if uninterested. And, if you get more junk e-mail than useful e-mail, you can change your address in less than five minutes.

    Jeff -- I can appreciate your response. Glad to understand the motivation. The discussion of a "mini-scandal" made me wonder whether there was the beginnings of an "investigation" -- which seems over the top.

  7. #7
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    Did you even read my original post? Wow. You have made so many twisted assumptions, I don't know where to begin.
    Please stop characterizing me (wrongly and badly) and stop putting words in my mouth. I am just annoyed that a
    valid distribution list that my personal email address is on was misued. End of discussion!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Rosenblatt View Post
    Did you even read my original post? Wow. You have made so many twisted assumptions, I don't know where to begin.
    Please stop characterizing me (wrongly and badly) and stop putting words in my mouth. I am just annoyed that a
    valid distribution list that my personal email address is on was misued. End of discussion!
    Characterizing you? Putting words in your mouth? Twisted assumptions? I assumed nothing. I have no idea (and I suppose neither do you) how someone got/already had your e-mail address. I have no idea how you voted (although the complaints about the G/O e-mail speak to a different leaning), nor was that the point of my response. And what exactly did I characterize you as, except annoyed by an e-mail -- which you yourself stated in the initial post -- and perhaps a non-supporter of these two candidates, which was implied by the discussion of receiving the e-mail?

    I simply responded to your stated annoyance by suggesting that you delete a message you didn't want/like/need instead of raising a stink about it. Your reaction has me puzzled.

    In the end, you make the leap that some list was misued. That, to me, is the big assumption here.

    Unless I'm missing the point, by the way, simply stating "end of discussion" on a public board doesn't make it so. If you don't want the responses, probably not opening up the discussion in the first place is the more appropriate path.

    Sorry you were so offended.

  9. #9
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    A few thoughts here:

    (1) I manage several email lists, and I am scrupulous about how I use them. If I receive an email for a particular purpose, I do not use it for any other purpose. If I did, I guarantee you there would be people complaining about it all over the place.

    (2)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Baron View Post
    And, if you get more junk e-mail than useful e-mail, you can change your address in less than five minutes.
    I strongly disagree with this. I have an "email for life" address from my college. I have used that for years, and would not want to change it. It's rather like your cell number -- would you be cavalier about changing yours because you started getting phone calls you didn't want?

    (3) I agree that this isn't a huge deal. Carl even said he had no plans to pursue it. But Carl's email address came from somewhere -- somebody provided it, and they shouldn't have. I don't know what lists Carl is on or where it was pulled from. Most innocuous would be that it came from a friend he has emailed with who thought he would be supportive and provided it to the candidates. Less innocuous would be that it came from a church or temple list, a sports team list, that sort of thing. But he asked the question, and a simple acknowledgement of what happened, an explanation and an apology are warranted.

    To quote Jeff Baron from this thread: "Email you didn't ask for can be considered spam."

    This message, unsolicited, unwanted and to an email address that didn't sign up for it is technically spam. And no matter how easy to delete, we all find spam annoying.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Reichelt View Post
    A few thoughts here:

    (1) I manage several email lists, and I am scrupulous about how I use them. If I receive an email for a particular purpose, I do not use it for any other purpose. If I did, I guarantee you there would be people complaining about it all over the place.

    (2)

    I strongly disagree with this. I have an "email for life" address from my college. I have used that for years, and would not want to change it. It's rather like your cell number -- would you be cavalier about changing yours because you started getting phone calls you didn't want?

    (3) I agree that this isn't a huge deal. Carl even said he had no plans to pursue it. But Carl's email address came from somewhere -- somebody provided it, and they shouldn't have. I don't know what lists Carl is on or where it was pulled from. Most innocuous would be that it came from a friend he has emailed with who thought he would be supportive and provided it to the candidates. Less innocuous would be that it came from a church or temple list, a sports team list, that sort of thing. But he asked the question, and a simple acknowledgement of what happened, an explanation and an apology are warranted. This message, unsolicited, unwanted and to an email address that didn't sign up for it is technically spam. And no matter how easy to delete, we all find spam annoying.
    I get e-mails all the time from people I never asked to send me stuff. The most obvious example is people using my e-mail address to solicit charitable donations. Sure, they have my e-mail for some other purpose/list/etc., but they use it non-nefariously to promote their cause. I cannot think of a time I have replied, asking where they got my e-mail address, no less asking for an apology. I either read or not, act or not, and delete.

    This example is no different in my mind. Whomever sent the e-mail probably did their best to assemble the list and get out their message to people they believed would be receptive to the content. I would HIGHLY doubt there was some nefarious intent. So, I wouldn't expect that the same sender should be expected to go through machinations of explaining and apologizing. The most reasonable course of action would be to delete his address from the list and never send anything again. If that wasn't done, then I would then feel aggrieved.

    I too find spam annoying. However, it is a part of having an e-mail address much like junk mail is a part of having a physical address. I just accept it. The issue today is that I can take action through databases that eliminate my address from junk-mail lists, or placing my number on do-not-call lists. I wouldn't be surprised to know that similar databases for e-mail lists will develop. I know they already exist in many individual avenues, but I'm not aware of a single database similar to the do-not-call initiative. And, if it really bugs me, then I can change the address. That might be a pain, but it is far less of a pain then changing my physicial address.

    By the way, this purported invasion of privacy is nothing unique or new. I recall an election not too far back when a resident of town robocalled my house (along with thousands of other Wayland households) trashing a candidate. I certainly didn't ask for that call and found that to be a much greater breach. Even my registry on the do-not-call list couldn't prevent this because political calls are exempted from the do-not-call protections. However, I followed the same course of action. Delete and move on....

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Baron View Post
    By the way, this purported invasion of privacy is nothing unique or new. I recall an election not too far back when a resident of town robocalled my house (along with thousands of other Wayland households) trashing a candidate. I certainly didn't ask for that call and found that to be a much greater breach. Even my registry on the do-not-call list couldn't prevent this because political calls are exempted from the do-not-call protections. However, I followed the same course of action. Delete and move on....
    Don't get me started on robocalling! The one you refer to at least provided the name of the caller. There was another I received, I seem to remember from "my neighbor Pat". Pat?! There's no Pat on my street. And there have been others that didn't even identify themselves that much. In all these cases, there was no mention, as you hear in "real" political robocalls of who paid for the ad, which is generally a requirement for campaign expenditures. The really awful thing is that even this isn't so much against the law either. There's a gap between election laws and telecommunications laws, between the state and federal levels that simply leaves these things uncovered. Awful, isn't it?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Reichelt View Post
    Don't get me started on robocalling! The one you refer to at least provided the name of the caller. There was another I received, I seem to remember from "my neighbor Pat". Pat?! There's no Pat on my street. And there have been others that didn't even identify themselves that much. In all these cases, there was no mention, as you hear in "real" political robocalls of who paid for the ad, which is generally a requirement for campaign expenditures. The really awful thing is that even this isn't so much against the law either. There's a gap between election laws and telecommunications laws, between the state and federal levels that simply leaves these things uncovered. Awful, isn't it?
    Why do you suppose that gap exists? Probably because the politicians want to be able to have the robocalls go out about their own campaigns without flying against the law. Very self-serving, but hardly the only piece of the law where politicians favor themselves over the average guy.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Baron View Post
    Why do you suppose that gap exists? Probably because the politicians want to be able to have the robocalls go out about their own campaigns without flying against the law. Very self-serving, but hardly the only piece of the law where politicians favor themselves over the average guy.
    To wit: the GOP! [grin]

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    To wit: the GOP! [grin]
    Let's not even go there. I'm not going to hold the Dems in any great light when it comes to looking after themselves

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