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Thread: Town Beach, Electronic voting and governing together

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Flaherty View Post

    I resent the implication.
    The implication being that people need to see how other people are voting in order to decide for themselves how to vote.
    I never implied that. I merely said that there are times that it is useful. And that I have found it useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Flaherty View Post
    Do you think that people are that shallow?
    That poorly informed?
    Have no opinion of their own?
    Have insufficient backbone to arrive at their own conclusions without needing to take their cues from someone else?
    I don't think you need to be shallow, or poorly informed, or lack backbone to find it useful to know how the FinCom would vote on an amendment. Why, otherwise, does the FinCom list their votes on articles in the warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Flaherty View Post
    You can stand if you want to stand while placing your private vote, but the motives behind doing so seem to be to effectively veto one of the main benefits of e-voting so that one could still send the message to others in the room how they should vote.
    So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that one of the main benefits of e-voting is preventing others from broadcasting how they are voting? I had thought you were for looking for speed of voting and our your own personal privacy. I didn't really understand that you also wanted to prevent others from sharing how they intend to vote. I strongly disagree with you on this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Flaherty View Post
    However, my guess is that the number of people choosing to stand when they donít need to would sharply fall off in the next few elections
    If so, then the moderator could opt to stop asking. Town Meeting rules and procedures do adapt to what works and what people like and want.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Reichelt View Post
    I didn't really understand that you also wanted to prevent others from sharing how they intend to vote.
    I never said that.
    In fact, I said "You can stand if you want to stand while placing your private vote"
    If you want to show the world how you vote, have at it.

    However, I question your motives.
    The only logical reason I can see is that you want to influence the vote.

    As you know, there are rules at town meeting and at the polls about how close one can be who is trying to influence the vote.
    In order to hand out flyers supporting a particular candidate or cause, one must be a certain number of feet away from the building.

    Yet, here you are trying to influence the vote from within the room while the vote is taking place.

    Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen......
    Last edited by John Flaherty; 05-22-2010 at 10:54 AM.
    John Flaherty

    Any views expressed are NOT mine alone.
    Wayland Transparency - Facts Without Spin
    http://www.waylandtransparency.com/

  3. #33
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    Dec 2005
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    Wayland, MA
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    Since someone earlier accused me of being a sociologist (which I consider a compliment) I will make the sociological observation that it is interesting to me to see that all of the proponents of this privacy initiative who have weighed-in on this in this thread because they are so worried about bullying and intimidation employ what I consider bullying and intimidation in their posts here. The posts have a uniformly accusatory, arogant, authoritarian, hostile and/or and dismissive tone. Makes me wonder what all of this push for private viting is really about.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Flaherty View Post
    I question your motives. The only logical reason I can see is that you want to influence the vote. *** Yet, here you are trying to influence the vote from within the room while the vote is taking place. Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen......
    Absurd on both counts, and unworthy of a response.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Flaherty View Post
    I never said that.
    In fact, I said "You can stand if you want to stand while placing your private vote"
    If you want to show the world how you vote, have at it.

    However, I question your motives.
    The only logical reason I can see is that you want to influence the vote.
    You question my motives? Gee, thanks. I can only imagine the responses I would get if I posted something like that. Jon has a point about the tone of these posts. I am trying to have a serious discussion about the issues. I am willing to hear opposing views, but I do dislike responses that treat my opinion as "bizarre" and of questionable motive. Forum members should be respectful of opinions that differ from their own. I gave you several reasons why I think public voting, even when rendered unnecessary by electronic voting, might still be desireable. You can disagree without being disagreeable.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Flaherty View Post
    As you know, there are rules at town meeting and at the polls about how close one can be who is trying to influence the vote.
    Even to wear a button supporting a particular candidate or cause, one must be a certain number of feet away from the building.

    Yet, here you are trying to influence the vote from within the room while the vote is taking place.

    Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen......
    Town Meeting rules are different from the rules from the polls. Did you see all the pro-article literature right at the entrance of the Field House? Right inside, after check in! Alan was wearing his "Privacy is Priceless" pro-Electronic Voting button while he presented his article, right at the podium, and I am quite sure Moderator Gossels did not eject him. Quite surely, standing up to vote, as people have done for two hundred years, and as they still do throughout the Commonwealth, is not going to result in a (meaningful) lawsuit.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Perlman View Post
    Absurd on both counts, and unworthy of a response.
    For me to come back at this point with an obvious reply like "But you just responded!" would be juvenile and just plain silly, so I won't do it.
    John Flaherty

    Any views expressed are NOT mine alone.
    Wayland Transparency - Facts Without Spin
    http://www.waylandtransparency.com/

  7. #37
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    I stand corrected.
    And I corrected my post.
    Alan Reiss was allowed to wear his Privacy is Priceless button in the hall, and had Gossels written permission to do so.
    Flyers are allowed on the tables in the room, but likewise are required to be appoved first by the Moderator.

    However, handing out literature is not allowed. Perhaps because it is more "in your face" than having the literature sit on a table, where people can easily pass over it if they are not interested.

    So even though I chose a bad (incorrect) example by saying buttons aren't allowed, my point still stands - people are not allowed to market and sell their cause to the room, other than at the Pro or Con microphone.

    Privacy in voting is coming to Wayland whether you like it or not. Of course for those people who feel compelled to share with the world how they are voting, they have a right to do so. But the question is, will anyone listen? Will anyone care anymore, now that they know that with the push of a button, they can cast their vote as they please without needing to explain or apologize or feel awkard with anyone in the room.

    We have privacy at the polls.
    We should also have it at Town Meeting.
    John Flaherty

    Any views expressed are NOT mine alone.
    Wayland Transparency - Facts Without Spin
    http://www.waylandtransparency.com/

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