Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 26

Thread: Electronic solution for fixing Town Meeting

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Wayland MA 463 Old Conn Path
    Posts
    382

    Lightbulb Electronic solution for fixing Town Meeting

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Update: 12/19/09
    A petitioners article has been filed for the annual town meeting May 2010 on Electronic Voting.
    As part of the educational and research process supporting this article, the following website has been created:

    http://www.ElectronicVoting.info

    [This is a work in progress and will updated as new information becomes available]
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Update: 12/5/09
    Additional Research with Pricing can be obtained via these two document links

    Document: Bringing Electronic Voting to Wayland Town Meeting
    Document: Options Technology Quote for 2,000 keypad system
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Although this subject was broached on the 2/3rds thread, I felt that it is important enough to standalone and consider both here in this forum and throughout the town. Clearly, Town Meeting needs help and Jeff Dieffenbach has nicely outlined a laundry list of items to consider, some procedural, some logistical and one electronic.

    The first time I became aware of the notion of an electronic system for voting at town meeting was in October 2006 when a 'Hillary' (at the time a 10th grader) sent a letter to Peter Gossels about the possibility of using cell phones as voting instruments at town meeting. Peter Gossels forwarded the letter to me for commentary.

    Hillary's idea was novel and although had merit, there were technical difficulties that were insurmountable. Granted, the cellular solution would have eliminated a large expense because people carried their own cell phones, there was still the integration of those cell phones into a system which would provide security, counting and control. All possible but way beyond the resources and capability of a municipality. This would have a better project for Motorola or Qualcomm in conjunction with Microsoft. Along with that cellular idea was the fact that people outside of the town meeting hall would be able to vote and, as much as well all may fantasize voting from home, it is not legal to do that in Massachusetts. Town board meeting members can only participate in-person and town citizens can only vote in person at Town Meeting. This is state law.

    But electronic voting may be the single most powerful tool that we could inject into the fix for our town meeting and, I suspect, the town meeting of other towns who face the same challenges that we do.

    About 1 year ago I began to investigate the available technologies which could practically be integrated into this solution and I proffered this idea to town government behind the scenes. I did not receive a warm response from that initial encounter. But today is a different day and our most recent town meeting clearly shows that vote counting can be slow, inaccurate, subject to objection and be divisive. We spend more time counting and re-counting then we do debating.

    I have Webex demos setup for next week to see the most recent electronic offerings and today I published an op-ed in the Crier to re-introduce 'Hillary's' idea... so if you are out there Hillary, I thank you.

    Here is the link to my op-ed piece 11/25/09 Wayland Town Crier:

    http://www.wickedlocal.com/wayland/n...g-Town-Meeting
    Last edited by AlanJReiss; 12-19-2009 at 11:54 AM. Reason: Added reference to petitioners article website

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Wayland MA
    Posts
    1,431

    Default

    Alan, do you mean "thousands OF thousands of dollars" (literally, millions of dollars), or do you mean "thousands AND thousands of dollars?" How many dollars are we talking about?

    Changing topics, you write (in the Town Crier article):

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanJReiss
    Those who understand Wayland’s political landscape are keenly aware of the fact that its power distribution has changed since the 2005 formation of a new political party. A majority of the minority who votes at the polls or attends town meeting now dominates the boards, the spending and the borrowing. We are losing time-honored political checks and balances.
    Presumably, you are talking about Save our Services. I won't argue that the emergence of SOS didn't change the "power distribution," but I will take exception to what I infer to be your opinion that this was what I'll call an unnatural change.

    Let's travel back in time to the mid 1980s to mid 1990s (I moved to town in 1994, but my wife grew up here). While I'd love to hear what others think, my cursory understanding is that town politics during that period had something of what I'll call an "establishment" structure. Keep in mind that while Proposition 2 1/2 had just been approved by the state legislature (in 1982 or 1983, I think), financial pressures weren't what they are today. Perhaps more importantly, the absence of Internet-driven instant communication confined information (and therefore controversy) in a manner not easily imaginable today.

    I joined the Finance Committee in 1995. At that time, budget guidelines had already moved to "cost of living increases plus no growth in non-personnel costs." The Middle School renovation and expansion was approved, as was the Public Safety Building. The latter, coupled with debates over the disposition of the Dow property on Route 30, started to attract what I'll inelegantly call "opposition" (as opposed to establishment) attention. (If someone has a better phrase, please share. "Watchdog?")

    Skip ahead almost a decade, to early 2004. Web-driven communication was now in full force. The Wayland Voters Network was created, in large part enabled by technology, the first of several "permanent" organizations to take root. Despite WVN's initial statement describing their mission as informational in nature, they clearly staked out a perspective that can't be called neutral or objective. Please note that I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having an opinion.

    A year later, if the date in Alan's Town Crier piece is correct, SOS was formed, also with a perspective. And along the way, numerous other organizations came and went (and may come again): Citizens Against Reckless Development (CARD), Concerned School Parents of Wayland, One Wayland, RSVP, Yes4WHS, and, undoubtedly, others that aren't coming immediately to mind.

    Sorry for the long-winded and far from comprehensive digression, but I wanted to put some substance behind the point that SOS wasn't so much a disruptive (and certainly not unrepresentative) force as it was a response to what had come before. If anything, I'll argue that SOS is "establishment" in somewhat the same way that I think things were in the mid 1980s to mid 1990s. Again, that's just my opinion, and I wasn't here then to form it directly.

    Alan, you appear to me to be suggesting that SOS somehow represents a minority viewpoint in town. It might, or it might not, but I don't see any evidence to support this notion. Do the boards reflect SOS, or does SOS reflect the boards? When I started in town government a full decade before SOS was created, there was at least a majority (almost by definition) on each of the Board of Selectmen, Finance Committee, and School Committee that would easily be called "establishment."

    Alan, you concluded the paragraph I quoted above by saying that we are "losing time-honored political checks and balances." Can you elaborate? I simply don't see foundation for this statement. Presumably, you mean more than people moving to terminate debate at Town Meeting.

    Oh, and to get back on topic, I'm all for pursuing electronic voting. I'll even volunteer to operate the server! [grin]

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Wayland MA 463 Old Conn Path
    Posts
    382

    Smile Thank you for your thoughtful response

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    Alan, do you mean "thousands OF thousands of dollars" (literally, millions of dollars), or do you mean "thousands AND thousands of dollars?" How many dollars are we talking about?
    The original wording I had in the article was 10's of thousands of dollars. Mike Wyner changed that and I saw it when it hit the presses. Although I don't know the exact figures you would be talking about $10-$20 per hand held unit plus the price of the console (which may be $10K). The answer would be wrapped up in the number of units that were purchased which would effect the price of each unit as multiplied by the number of units themselves. But $100K or $200K might be what one would expect. I mention in the article something that was also mentioned here about multi-town resource sharing which would dramatically cut into the price of the proposition. Its my opinion that even if it were $200K, the restoration to a smooth town meeting which would be more efficient and even cut down on the number of nights would have rapid return on investment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    Presumably, you are talking about Save our Services. I won't argue that the emergence of SOS didn't change the "power distribution," but I will take exception to what I infer to be your opinion that this was what I'll call an unnatural change.
    You are 'inferring' what you think I'm thinking and you are upset about the words you are putting in my mouth? Thats new.

    The evolution of SOS is a perfectly natural change. It correlates precisely to Darwinism. The demographic of Wayland changed over the past decade and combine that with the natural focusing power of the schools and the children plus an aging population that is apathetic or too old to be plugged in or too busy with their lives and you get a phenomena which is not uncommon in many towns. I've interviewed people in other towns, peer towns to Wayland and not and they tell me of similar stories... Hopkington, for one was matched identically to the history that you have described and the current force majore of the ruling party. Although, I have to say that Wayland appears really far off the charts when I made that comparison.

    So Jeff, rest assured, I'm not 'inferring' that this is an unnatural process at all, I'm only stating what you and I are agreeing to right here:

    [JD grin] "I won't argue that the emergence of SOS didn't change the "power distribution,"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    Despite WVN's initial statement describing their mission as informational in nature, they clearly staked out a perspective that can't be called neutral or objective. Please note that I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having an opinion.
    I don't think you like WVN do ya Jeff?, I get that feeling.

    You don't mind if someone has an opinion so here is mine...

    WVN is primarily an electronic news magazine. It does have editorial content and overtones and it does have a point of view. WVN sends its reporters to sit in on meetings and report. I find the content of those reports to be detailed and accurate.

    (Sorry Kim, but I have to make a comparison here...) WaylandeNews is primarily a news recycler with little to no publisher based editorializing.

    However, Waylandenews has a discussion forum (and a damn good one at that) which is moderated and not anonymous (which which I am eternally grateful) and the demographic which are the "LoudSpeakers" have definite opinions.

    In the one case where I can point directly to an editorial slant from Waylandenews is in the recommendations for candidates. In my case, enews said that Alan Reiss was third behind Pope and Fay because (and I paraphrase) "Alan is not perceived to have the best interests of the schools at heart". And at that I wrote a private email to the editorial board of enews thanking them for at least including me in the top three.

    Remember, this 3rd place award was given at the same exact time the Wayland Town Crier had me first out of the field of three.

    Two people see the same accident and each has a different viewpoint of what happened ... is the best analogy I can think of for this one.

    So, WVN is biased just like eNews is biased and that is because they both have opinions and having opinions is good. If I didn't think it was good, I wouldn't be here and to enews's credit WVN doesn't run a moderated, open discussion forum.

    Fair Kim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    A year later, if the date in Alan's Town Crier piece is correct, SOS was formed, also with a perspective. And along the way, numerous other organizations came and went (and may come again): Citizens Against Reckless Development (CARD), Concerned School Parents of Wayland, One Wayland, RSVP, Yes4WHS, and, undoubtedly, others that aren't coming immediately to mind.
    All true and I hope more are coming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    If anything, I'll argue that SOS is "establishment" in somewhat the same way that I think things were in the mid 1980s to mid 1990s. Again, that's just my opinion, and I wasn't here then to form it directly.
    I was here, just ignorant to the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    Alan, you appear to me to be suggesting that SOS somehow represents a minority viewpoint in town. It might, or it might not, but I don't see any evidence to support this notion. Do the boards reflect SOS, or does SOS reflect the boards?
    SOS represents the majority of the minority that votes... and sometimes that majority is as thin as 'gold foil'.. How many votes did you beat Grasso by Jeff? The majority of Wayland still does not vote. I wish to be very clear about this.

    During the past 4 electoral candidate years, if you were not an SOS supported candidate, you lost... (with one exception Anette Lewis). SOS begets boards or boards begets SOS... looks like 'chicken and egg' to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    Alan, you concluded the paragraph I quoted above by saying that we are "losing time-honored political checks and balances." Can you elaborate? I simply don't see foundation for this statement. Presumably, you mean more than people moving to terminate debate at Town Meeting.
    In order to answer this completely, I could write a book and in fact, someday I was thinking of just that. Hows this title: "Small town New England Politics" or "Local Politics - New England Style" I've got pictures and film and stories and published stuff... so please don't force me to rehash this stuff today.

    But yes, town meeting is a microcosm of the loss of town honored traditions unless, tactics like "professional movers" or "BS excuses for reconsideration" or "Hooting at standing minorities waiting to be counted" or "the I didn't know I shouldn't have gone home and he told me it was ok - my dog ate my homework excuse" or "the Hail Mary Passover maneuver" to get to that end zone so that everybody can vote and go home no matter how important the other articles were. Anymore and I would start a fist fight so enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    Oh, and to get back on topic, I'm all for pursuing electronic voting. I'll even volunteer to operate the server! [grin]
    I mentioned this op-ed to one of the selectman last weekend and he thought that it was a good idea ...anything to fix town meeting at this point. But he said [tongue in cheek] "as long as your in town Alan... out there somewhere.. I don't know.. maybe you'll hack into that system"

    I wouldn't do that ! But can I operate the server too Jeff?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    117

    Default We already own electronic voting devices

    The Wayland Public School Foundation has purchased a number of Quizdom systems over the past few years. These devices are used in a class room setting where a teacher posts a multiple choice question (up to 4 choices I believe) and each student has the opportunity to respond. The devices are numbered so the teacher knows if a student is having difficulty. It seems that we could implement a system similar to this for town meeting and it has been used for years in our school system.

    This system may not work for town meeting because of the number of voters or some other reason but it is readily available and should be included in any electronic voting analysis.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Wayland MA 463 Old Conn Path
    Posts
    382

    Default Thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by BTDowns View Post
    This system may not work for town meeting because of the number of voters or some other reason but it is readily available and should be included in any electronic voting analysis.
    Ben, this is great information. There are few suppliers of this type of equipment and I selected a small number who were in the corporate space to look at. I will see a demo next week via Webex. I will also contact Quizdom. I don't think the number of voters (or size of the class) would be the limiting factor. From looking at their site, it seemed geared to a system of feedback for test taking rather than voter response.

    Ultimately, the selectmen will have to put a committee together to study this and any work that I do not would just be a starting point.

    The key now is to try to get a consensus of opinion as to whether the town would want to do this and want to pay for it.

    I'd be interested to hear your viewpoint and the reasons behind it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    726

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanJReiss View Post

    You don't mind if someone has an opinion so here is mine...

    WVN is primarily an electronic news magazine. It does have editorial content and overtones and it does have a point of view. WVN sends its reporters to sit in on meetings and report. I find the content of those reports to be detailed and accurate.

    (Sorry Kim, but I have to make a comparison here...) WaylandeNews is primarily a news recycler with little to no publisher based editorializing.

    However, Waylandenews has a discussion forum (and a damn good one at that) which is moderated and not anonymous (which which I am eternally grateful) and the demographic which are the "LoudSpeakers" have definite opinions.

    In the one case where I can point directly to an editorial slant from Waylandenews is in the recommendations for candidates. In my case, enews said that Alan Reiss was third behind Pope and Fay because (and I paraphrase) "Alan is not perceived to have the best interests of the schools at heart". And at that I wrote a private email to the editorial board of enews thanking them for at least including me in the top three.

    Remember, this 3rd place award was given at the same exact time the Wayland Town Crier had me first out of the field of three.

    Two people see the same accident and each has a different viewpoint of what happened ... is the best analogy I can think of for this one.

    So, WVN is biased just like eNews is biased and that is because they both have opinions and having opinions is good. If I didn't think it was good, I wouldn't be here and to enews's credit WVN doesn't run a moderated, open discussion forum.

    Fair Kim?
    No, not fair. See, WVN says their newsletter is "news" and not editorial. They've reiterated this on numerous occasions, and yet even you have just indicated this is not entirely true.

    They put out information that is often inaccurate. They have, for example, said things about me that have been completely untrue, things that they made no effort to verify as a real reporter would (and yet they have advertised their qualifications as real reporters, so I think they should rightly be held to that standard), and then in the odd case that they did issue a correction, it was completely buried.

    If I am unhappy about their correction or lack of one, I can do nothing to reach their readers to give "my side" of the story.

    In contrast, WaylandeNews makes every effort to keep newsletters and the website fair and balanced. Anyone who thinks this is not happening, is welcome to post here in our open and public forum. Even you have agreed that our publications are fair and balanced. When we editorialize, it is HERE, in this public and open forum, and others are welcome to add their comments -- even our "editorials" are open for response.

    I fail to see the comparison between the two. Editorials posing as news with no availability of public feedback v. news and other useful information with an open and public forum on the side. No comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by BTDowns View Post
    The Wayland Public School Foundation has purchased a number of Quizdom systems over the past few years. These devices are used in a class room setting where a teacher posts a multiple choice question (up to 4 choices I believe) and each student has the opportunity to respond. The devices are numbered so the teacher knows if a student is having difficulty. It seems that we could implement a system similar to this for town meeting and it has been used for years in our school system.

    This system may not work for town meeting because of the number of voters or some other reason but it is readily available and should be included in any electronic voting analysis.
    As for electronic voting, I'm all for it. It might be nice to find out what might be involved in updating the applicable state laws to enable electronic voting from home (laws obviously written when live cable broadcasts were not available), but solving the immediate problem with electronic voting devices would be tremendously valuable. If Town Meeting could be dedicated to debate rather than procedural and logistical issues, it would be more efficient, enjoyable and productive.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Wayland MA
    Posts
    1,431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanJReiss View Post
    You are 'inferring' what you think I'm thinking and you are upset about the words you are putting in my mouth? Thats new.
    What I was trying to say was that *if* I was understanding you correctly, I took exception (which isn't the same thing as being upset). I was allowing for the fact that I might *not* have been understanding correctly, and that if that was the case, I didn't want to be putting words in your mouth.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanJReiss View Post
    The evolution of SOS is a perfectly natural change. It correlates precisely to Darwinism. The demographic of Wayland changed over the past decade
    And my point was simply that it might have changed *back* (to the mid 1980s/mid 1990s), not changed to something new.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanJReiss View Post
    and combine that with the natural focusing power of the schools and the children plus an aging population that is apathetic or too old to be plugged in or too busy with their lives and you get a phenomena which is not uncommon in many towns.
    Interestingly enough, among our peers, Wayland has a relatively low ratio of homes with school-aged children, particularly as we approach what may be the low end of our enrollment cycle.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanJReiss View Post
    So, WVN is biased just like eNews is biased and that is because they both have opinions and having opinions is good.
    I'll argue that by virtue of eNews being almost entirely an aggregator, that they are less biased. Or, perhaps, that makes them exactly as biased as the news sources they aggregate.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanJReiss View Post
    SOS represents the majority of the minority that votes...
    Right, but for all we know, SOS may also represent the majority of the majority.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanJReiss View Post
    and sometimes that majority is as thin as 'gold foil'.. How many votes did you beat Grasso by Jeff?
    Probably a rhetorical question, but the answer is 38, or about 2.5%. I contend, however, that both Paul Grasso and Jeff Baron, to some extent, were "traditional" School Committee candidates running in order to make the schools better (compare, for instance, to Steve Glovsky as evidenced by his statements and approach to campaigning). I don't think that either Paul or Jeff were all that philosophically out of sync with SOS objectives, even if they weren't necessarily tactically aligned. And, for that matter, I don't know how SOS members voted, but I knew many of them long before SOS came into being, so the the extent that they worked for and/or voted for me, there was a pre-existing relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanJReiss View Post
    But yes, town meeting is a microcosm of the loss of town honored traditions unless, tactics like "professional movers" or "BS excuses for reconsideration" or "Hooting at standing minorities waiting to be counted" or "the I didn't know I shouldn't have gone home and he told me it was ok - my dog ate my homework excuse" or "the Hail Mary Passover maneuver" to get to that end zone so that everybody can vote and go home no matter how important the other articles were.
    You forgot dubious "recounts!" [grin] For the record, I don't think that I have ever moved to terminate debate, nor have I ever applauded or hooted at Town Meeting unless encouraged to do so by the Moderator, nor have I departed early. Those, of course, are marks of a TM "veteran," so you and the Town should expect nothing less. As for newcomers, well, all we have is on the job training.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Wayland MA 463 Old Conn Path
    Posts
    382

    Default OK... now let try to move past this

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    What I was trying to say was that *if* I was understanding you correctly, I took exception (which isn't the same thing as being upset). I was allowing for the fact that I might *not* have been understanding correctly, and that if that was the case, I didn't want to be putting words in your mouth.
    Ok, I wasn't inferring, I was trying to be factual and apparently you agreed with me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    Interestingly enough, among our peers, Wayland has a relatively low ratio of homes with school-aged children, particularly as we approach what may be the low end of our enrollment cycle.
    I was referring more to the shift in the school/political/age demographics thats seems to be replicating itself in many towns. Hopkington being very close to Wayland in that regard as described to me by one resident.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    I'll argue that by virtue of eNews being almost entirely an aggregator, that they are less biased. Or, perhaps, that makes them exactly as biased as the news sources they aggregate.
    I did point out one very hard fact concerning my own candidate ranking vs. the Crier so, in that instance, there was editorializing. Again, enews is a news aggregator except in a few instances where they jump in with endorsements. So what are we debating here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    Right, but for all we know, SOS may also represent the majority of the majority.
    Since a majority doesn't vote then its speculation. But yes, can't rule it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    Probably a rhetorical question, but the answer is 38, or about 2.5%. I contend, however, that both Paul Grasso and Jeff Baron, to some extent, were "traditional" School Committee candidates running in order to make the schools better (compare, for instance, to Steve Glovsky as evidenced by his statements and approach to campaigning). I don't think that either Paul or Jeff were all that philosophically out of sync with SOS objectives, even if they weren't necessarily tactically aligned. And, for that matter, I don't know how SOS members voted, but I knew many of them long before SOS came into being, so the the extent that they worked for and/or voted for me, there was a pre-existing relationship.
    Jeff be proud of your supporters which I'm sure you are.
    Baron and Grasso were not supported by SOS and they lost.
    I don't think I had the support of SOS either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    You forgot dubious "recounts!" [grin] For the record, I don't think that I have ever moved to terminate debate, nor have I ever applauded or hooted at Town Meeting unless encouraged to do so by the Moderator, nor have I departed early. Those, of course, are marks of a TM "veteran," so you and the Town should expect nothing less. As for newcomers, well, all we have is on the job training.
    Jeff, for the record, I don't ever believe I've seen you 'move to terminate debate', 'applauded or hooted at TM etc..', you always stay to the end of the meeting - to my shi[grin] but this doesn't rule out speeches or other comments you have made which you might have wanted to modify later on or may have fallen into the category of 'open mouth insert foot'.

    Now can we get back to the issue of e-voting ?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    726

    Default Another argument for electronic voting...

    At least this didn't happen on Article 3...

    http://www.boston.com/yourtown/budge...gaffe_cos.html

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wayland, MA
    Posts
    235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BTDowns View Post
    The Wayland Public School Foundation has purchased a number of Quizdom systems over the past few years. These devices are used in a class room setting where a teacher posts a multiple choice question (up to 4 choices I believe) and each student has the opportunity to respond. The devices are numbered so the teacher knows if a student is having difficulty. It seems that we could implement a system similar to this for town meeting and it has been used for years in our school system.

    This system may not work for town meeting because of the number of voters or some other reason but it is readily available and should be included in any electronic voting analysis.
    I doubt that these devices are secure enough for voting.

    Google wireless electronic voting for an overview of what's available.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    165

    Lightbulb New technology? Not on your life

    I have an idea - let's take a vote to see if we should use e-voting! Then we could recount, repoll, rebuff, respin, and regurgitate over this too. Not secure enough? Wow. I'm sure that the ultra-modern method we use in our ultra-modern TM is ultra-secure - let's not give that up. Have you (or any other lurkers here) ever seen anyone keep track of non-registered voters after they enter the hall to make sure that they don't vote? Or better yet, what about someone who gets counted in section "A" and then runs over to section "Z" to be counted again? Nah. That could never happen in our little town. Oh well. At least the sentiment is consistent - let's keep progress at bay. We know what we've got, and we LIKE it, so we will never change it no matter what. This brings to mind the recent "R" is for "Railroad" article. The tone of that article seemed to imply that we should go back to railroads because somehow that was a good thing back in the day, so therefore it MUST be good today as well. Heck - we should just remove all the roads and go back to horse-and-buggy. This would certainly save the town a lot of money on unnecessary and annoying speed bumps. OK. I'll stop now.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wayland, MA
    Posts
    235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Rosenblatt View Post
    I have an idea - let's take a vote to see if we should use e-voting! Then we could recount, repoll, rebuff, respin, and regurgitate over this too. Not secure enough? Wow. I'm sure that the ultra-modern method we use in our ultra-modern TM is ultra-secure - let's not give that up. Have you (or any other lurkers here) ever seen anyone keep track of non-registered voters after they enter the hall to make sure that they don't vote? Or better yet, what about someone who gets counted in section "A" and then runs over to section "Z" to be counted again? Nah. That could never happen in our little town. Oh well. At least the sentiment is consistent - let's keep progress at bay. We know what we've got, and we LIKE it, so we will never change it no matter what. This brings to mind the recent "R" is for "Railroad" article. The tone of that article seemed to imply that we should go back to railroads because somehow that was a good thing back in the day, so therefore it MUST be good today as well. Heck - we should just remove all the roads and go back to horse-and-buggy. This would certainly save the town a lot of money on unnecessary and annoying speed bumps. OK. I'll stop now.
    1. I was conscripted as a teller during the last Town Meeting, and posted a description in Jeff's "when is two-thirds not two-thirds?" thread of the several sources of error I noticed while serving in that capacity

    2. Pointing out that a device not designed for voting does not provide the requisite security for voting constitutes neither a rejection of e-voting nor a rejection of progress.

    3. Its reassuring to learn that you consider speed bumps annoying. I hope everyone else comes to share your aversion.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    726

    Default Speed bumps good, e-voting good, too.

    OK, this is off-topic, but I feel compelled to put in my vote (electronic or otherwise) in favor of strategically placed speed bumps.

    I agree that e-voting is the way of the future. It's going to be important to have something secure not because there could be small errors with it, but because the errors could be systemically in favor of one (technologically advanced) faction.

    I also agree that something more should be done to ensure that non-voters are appropriately identified (or, more realistically, that voters are - bracelets perhaps?) and to ensure that people cannot lurk between sections and be counted multiple times (as in, sit down and stay seated during the counting process, and when being counted, stand right in front of your seat -- this is something I did not adequately appreciate until serving as a teller).

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Wayland MA 463 Old Conn Path
    Posts
    382

    Thumbs up Electronic Voting website has been created

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Update: 12/19/09
    A petitioners article has been filed for the annual town meeting May 2010 on Electronic Voting.
    As part of the educational and research process supporting this article, the following website has been created:

    http://www.ElectronicVoting.info

    [This is a work in progress and will updated as new information becomes available]
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Wayland MA 463 Old Conn Path
    Posts
    382

    Default Petitioners article has been filed on Electronic Voting

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Rosenblatt View Post
    I have an idea - let's take a vote to see if we should use e-voting!
    In fact, in May 2010 we are going to do just that.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •