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Thread: Town Center Project Abandoned (again)

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Rosenblatt View Post
    2) I also don't know how much additional traffic this will generate. Once again, I really don't care.
    3) I also don't know what the "impact" on our precious water disposal process will be. Once again, I really don't care.
    If you're unconcerned with the safety of Wayland's residents and water resources, there is nothing more to say.

    We've already taken the steps necessary to minimize the safety threat of Town Center cut-through traffic on residential streets. The Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection and the United States Department of the Interior are fortunately more concerned with conserving water resources than you, and I doubt your howling will weaken their resolve.

    Your shameless exposition of the "Town Center At Any Cost" mantra -- I really don't care -- is quite helpful, however. Please continue.

  2. #32
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    Cool Nicely done, dork -oops, I mean Dave

    I love people who take excerpts from posts out of context, and use them to falsely support their position. Like you Dave.

    Did you READ the "why" section from my post? Huh? Did you? I bet you did. I bet you also chose to ignore it, because it made sense, but didn't support YOUR point of view, which, according to just about everything you've ever posted, is the ONLY point of view. I've tried to ignore you along this thread (or haven't you noticed that?), but you insist, like a swarm of gnats, on biting at my ankles. Enjoy your perspective, dear Dave. It's wrong, but that really doesn't matter, now does it?
    Last edited by Kim Reichelt; 05-08-2009 at 11:34 AM. Reason: to restore original title

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Rosenblatt View Post
    I love people who take excerpts from posts out of context, and use them to falsely support their position.
    There is nothing in the "why" section of your post that is inconsistent with the "headlines" I quoted from the beginning of your post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Rosenblatt View Post
    I've tried to ignore you along this thread (or haven't you noticed that?), but you insist, like a swarm of gnats, on biting at my ankles.
    You didn't respond to my posts because they cited publicly-available facts that expose your statements to be blatantly false.

    In case it's not obvious, Carl, my goal is not to change your mind. My goal is to expose the falsehoods behind your assertions and accusations so that readers here can see first-hand just how the "Town Center At Any Cost" gang works. From my perspective, your latest post is your best so far; keep going!

    Note to editor: please leave unmodified Carl's descent into name-calling in the title of his post. I've referenced derision and personal attacks from the "Town Center At Any Cost" gang in previous posts about Wayland's toxic atmosphere; Carl's post provides an indisputable example.

  4. #34
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    Fairness dictates that the key portion of Carl Rosenblatts post -- omitted by Dave Bernstein -- be noted.

    Carl wrote: "The reason I don't care about any of these things is simply because the Town Center is a great concept that is badly needed by this town. It's needed to create a true feeling of "town". It's needed to provide a reason for new families with young children to want to move here. It's needed to take 40 minutes a week off many residents round trip commuting time to Sudbury to pump their money into Sudbury's tax base so that they can buy groceries. (No, Whole Foods or whatever it's called now is NOT an acceptable substitute, nor is Donelans). So, why don't I care about any of these "hot" and "important" issues that a (yes, dare I say it?) relatively SMALL minority of people who are personally adversely affected by them are using as a way to kill this project? Simple. There are solutions for them all, that will come if the change is allowed to happen." [emphases added]

    This is cetainly not the "Town Center At Any Cost" mantra that Dave sets up as a straw man and then knocks down. Carl states a reasonable expression of confidence in our ability to solve problems in order to have a valuabe Town Center project.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Perlman View Post
    Fairness dictates that the key portion of Carl Rosenblatts post -- omitted by Dave Bernstein -- be noted.

    Carl wrote: "The reason I don't care about any of these things is simply because the Town Center is a great concept that is badly needed by this town. It's needed to create a true feeling of "town". It's needed to provide a reason for new families with young children to want to move here. It's needed to take 40 minutes a week off many residents round trip commuting time to Sudbury to pump their money into Sudbury's tax base so that they can buy groceries. (No, Whole Foods or whatever it's called now is NOT an acceptable substitute, nor is Donelans). So, why don't I care about any of these "hot" and "important" issues that a (yes, dare I say it?) relatively SMALL minority of people who are personally adversely affected by them are using as a way to kill this project? Simple. There are solutions for them all, that will come if the change is allowed to happen." [emphases added]

    This is cetainly not the "Town Center At Any Cost" mantra that Dave sets up as a straw man and then knocks down. Carl states a reasonable expression of confidence in our ability to solve problems in order to have a valuabe Town Center project.
    Carl stated up front that he didn't care about the negative impacts, extolled the benefits of the Town Center, minimized the negative impacts by claiming that only a minority is concerned with them, and then expressed his belief that there are solutions to these negative impacts -- without suggesting what those solutions might be.

    Just build it and we'll solve the problems later is a classic "Town Center At Any Cost" tactic. It seeks to ensure that the Town Center gets built whether or not these negative impacts can be effectively mitigated.

    For example, Steve, please explain how the intersection of routes 20, 27, and 126 could feasibly be restored to its current size after being expanded as is now required by the Town Center project? Recall that when the Town Center was approved at Town Meeting, the project was described as requiring no such expansion as long as access via route 27 was permitted; the switch part of the bait and switch scheme was executed more than a year later.

    Neither the State nor the Federal government seem susceptible to the Just build it and we'll solve the problems later canard, so I won't ask you to explain how you'd correct the health problems that might ensue if Wayland's wastewater plant were to exceed effluent regulations and pollute our well-based water supply.
    Last edited by Dave Bernstein; 05-04-2009 at 07:25 PM.

  6. #36
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    Default Thanks Steve

    Steve,

    I appreciate your help and attempt to show Davie that he's behaving exactly as he is accusing the "town center at any cost" contingency of supposedly behaving. Of course, I'm not sure exactly who this imaginary contingency is, seeing as I haven't met anyone like what he's describing... but of course, they must exist 'cause good old Davie says so!

    To turn the cards a bit, Davie is what I would call a "NO town center, under ANY circumstances, regardless of the benefits" contingent. He will find 50 reasons why a good idea can't (nay, SHOULDN'T) happen, and will go to any lengths to distort comments made by rational folks (like myself ) to support his unsupportable platform. I really did try to ignore Davie for a while (and no, Davie, it wasn't because you so expertly refuted everything I said... all you did was repeat the NO TOWN CENTER mantra in 3 part harmony), and I feel just a bit foolish for getting sucked into his ridiculous banter. This, of course will give Davie the opportunity to extract a piece of the previous sentence and quote me as calling myself "foolish" (can't wait to see it!), but hey, I don't care about that either (do you sense a pattern forming here?). I really do care about this town. I didn't volunteer for the BORC because I don't. I just believe in solving problems, not creating them where they don't exist. The town center will not happen. People like Dave will make sure of this. Cest la vie.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Rosenblatt View Post
    Steve,

    I appreciate your help and attempt to show Davie that he's behaving exactly as he is accusing the "town center at any cost" contingency of supposedly behaving. Of course, I'm not sure exactly who this imaginary contingency is, seeing as I haven't met anyone like what he's describing... but of course, they must exist 'cause good old Davie says so!

    To turn the cards a bit, Davie is what I would call a "NO town center, under ANY circumstances, regardless of the benefits" contingent. He will find 50 reasons why a good idea can't (nay, SHOULDN'T) happen, and will go to any lengths to distort comments made by rational folks (like myself ) to support his unsupportable platform. I really did try to ignore Davie for a while (and no, Davie, it wasn't because you so expertly refuted everything I said... all you did was repeat the NO TOWN CENTER mantra in 3 part harmony), and I feel just a bit foolish for getting sucked into his ridiculous banter. This, of course will give Davie the opportunity to extract a piece of the previous sentence and quote me as calling myself "foolish" (can't wait to see it!), but hey, I don't care about that either (do you sense a pattern forming here?). I really do care about this town. I didn't volunteer for the BORC because I don't. I just believe in solving problems, not creating them where they don't exist. The town center will not happen. People like Dave will make sure of this. Cest la vie.
    Right, anyone who supports a Town Center that fits Wayland's infrastructure and doesn't place residents or water quality at risk is an evil opponent to be mocked and villified. Congratulations on your Town Center At Any Cost hat trick, Carl; anyone wondering about the source of Wayland's poisonous, divisive atmosphere will find a steaming clue in your posts.

    The Town Center's possibly-mortal wounds are largely self-inflicted. Had Twenty Wayland scaled the project to fit the Town as they repeatedly promised,

    • they wouldn't have blown months re-designing the 20/27/126 intersection after their first plan was exposed as ludicrously inadequate
    • they wouldn't now be confronting opposition from a Historic District Commission outraged by the post-approval revelation that the project's impact on the District will be signficant rather than insignificant
    • they wouldn't be prevented from starting construction by the lack of a sewer connection permit from the Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection
    • they wouldn't be impeded by a lawsuit from the US Department of the Interior
    • they'd have broken ground last year as originally advertised -- before the onset of the financial crisis

    I'm sure you'll continue to ignore these inconvenient truths. Its much easier to pretend that a "vocal minority" of local officials and citizens is somehow responsible, and heap scorn in their direction.

  8. #38
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    Talking Blah blah blah

    Blah blah blah. Yeah. You're right Davie. You win. You're much smahta than I am. I am no match for your wit and intellect and convenient untruths (inconvenient untruths? Whatever.). Hopefully, the rest of my TOWN CENTER AT ANY COST contingency won't ban me from our next secret clan meeting. I really enjoy the chanting and blatant disregard for human life that we celebrate while scheming up ways to destroy Wayland, and if I am shunned by my compatriots, I will have to move in shame to another town, and begin again to destroy its fabric. Now I must slink back into the hole from whence I came, and hope that no one recognizes me at Whole Foods (what is the name of that place now??) where I'm forced to shop since I can't afford gas any more due to the unnecessarily high Wayland taxes.

    What were we talking about anyways? You seem to have driven me a bit off track there Davie.

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