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Thread: Beyond Digital Immigrants and Digital Natives

  1. #16
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    I'm certainly not intentionally twisting your words, and I wholly disagree with your characterization of that being a "nasty habit" of mine.

    I could have been clearer about the generalization that you were making--it was actually one sentence earlier.

    "Furthermore, technologies and problem solving techniques can change radically over time, to the point where experience with early versions of a technology can be useless or even harmful."

    That's a generalization, and generalizations don't have to have the words "always" or "must"--"can" and "some" are perfectly comfortable in generalization land.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    I'm certainly not intentionally twisting your words, and I wholly disagree with your characterization of that being a "nasty habit" of mine.
    Really? Then how do you explain this excerpt from your post?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    You did in fact introduce the notion of "difficulty of change," citing early software developers now struggling with object-oriented code. I extended the idea a bit. Yours was a generalization that by your own statement is part of the "problem."
    Were space aliens in control of your body while you wrote that?

    I didn't say that all early software developers now struggle with object-oriented architecture; I pointed out that some do, illustrating the flaw in your generalization that the duration of online experience is meaningful. You knew full well this wasn't a generalization, but that didn't stop you from labeling it one and then criticizing me for being inconsistent.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    I could have been clearer about the generalization that you were making--it was actually one sentence earlier.

    "Furthermore, technologies and problem solving techniques can change radically over time, to the point where experience with early versions of a technology can be useless or even harmful."

    That's a generalization, and generalizations don't have to have the words "always" or "must"--"can" and "some" are perfectly comfortable in generalization land.
    You'd have done better with the space alien defense, Jeff. Yes, that quote is in fact a generalization -- a generalization about technologies and problem-solving techniques, not individuals. The implication for individuals is clear -- in some cases, experience with early versions of a technology can be useless or even harmful; in other cases, it can be neutral or beneficial. Where individuals are involved, one cannot draw reliable conclusions from broad generalizations about "duration of experience" -- the basic premise of your first post in this thread.

    Care to change your story again?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Bernstein View Post
    Really? Then how do you explain this excerpt from your post?

    Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach
    You did in fact introduce the notion of "difficulty of change," citing early software developers now struggling with object-oriented code. I extended the idea a bit. Yours was a generalization that by your own statement is part of the "problem."


    Were space aliens in control of your body while you wrote that?
    Dave, are you denying that you wrote "For example, some software developers with experience stretching back to they early days of computing have had difficulty transitioning to declarative, object-oriented languages; for them, early immersion was a curse, not a blessing."? Because it's right there in post #5. Perhaps you weren't clear or perhaps I misunderstood, but it seems to me that you did in fact introduce the software developers example and their difficulty with change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Bernstein View Post
    I didn't say that all early software developers now struggle with object-oriented architecture; I pointed out that some do, illustrating the flaw in your generalization that the duration of online experience is meaningful.
    If you go back and read my original post, you'll see that I ended by asking if there were any practical applications, not stating that there were. Whatever "interestingness" the original post had, I think we've sucked the life out of it.

    Next topic: is American Idol an enduring metaphor of a post-modern era, or just the Gong Show without the gong?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    Dave, are you denying that you wrote "For example, some software developers with experience stretching back to they early days of computing have had difficulty transitioning to declarative, object-oriented languages; for them, early immersion was a curse, not a blessing."? Because it's right there in post #5. Perhaps you weren't clear or perhaps I misunderstood, but it seems to me that you did in fact introduce the software developers example and their difficulty with change.
    Of course I wrote that -- I wrote it to demonstrate the fallacy in your thesis that duration of experience is a reliable predictor of outcome. I didn't say that all software developers of long experience have this particular difficulty; many do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    If you go back and read my original post, you'll see that I ended by asking if there were any practical applications, not stating that there were.
    And I responded by pointing out that the premise was flawed, rendering the taxonomy not useful.

  5. #20
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    Okay, you win, you get the last word.

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