Page 8 of 12 FirstFirst 123456789101112 LastLast
Results 106 to 120 of 171

Thread: Is the website WaylandSchoolCommittee.org legal and appropriate?

  1. #106
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Wayland MA
    Posts
    1,431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanJReiss View Post
    And yes, Jeff D is the almighty registrar of www.WaylandSchoolCommittee.org so if Jeff wants to make a flood there he can.
    Technically, I'm the registrant, not the registrar. To check this, I went to Network Solutions' WHOIS page for www.waylandschoolcommittee.org to get the terminology correct.

    Since I registered the site on behalf of the School Committee more than six years ago, I hope that I'll be forgiven for not remembering the details. So, what did I find when I checked the registration today?

    Well, both the "Registrant Organization" and the "Admin Organization" are listed as the Wayland School Committee. I find it interesting that none of the people taking exception to the ownership and control of the WSC web site chose to indicate that simple fact.

    Maybe, like me, they never thought to look. Maybe they looked and saw it, but didn't want to undermine their already tenuous arguments. So far, unable to come up with a logical, legal, or ethical complaint, the best they've been able to do is repeat the weak "I don't like like it, it's bad, but I can't articulate a convincing reason why" line of attack.

    To be fair to Dave Bernstein, he did eventually manage a novel line of thinking about a highly unlikely event: *IF* a future minority of the WSC managed to hijack the site and use it improperly (most likely, to send an unsolicited communication regarding a ballot question), the majority of the WSC would not have a legal recourse to correct the site. (Pretty cool how I "quadruple emphasized" the "if," huh? [grin])

    Even that one surviving line of thinking evaporates in the face of the Wayland School Committee's March 2002 registration of its official web site.

  2. #107
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Wayland MA
    Posts
    1,431

    Default

    People who've managed to make it through the 117 posts of this thread, many relating to the Wayland School Committee's official web site, may find this post to be of interest.

  3. #108
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wayland, MA
    Posts
    235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    The action that you describe (posting content) would not run counter to the OCPF's rulings. The only likely example of a web site action that would run counter to the OCPF's rulings that I've been able to think of is, in fact, what I've written numerous times, including above: the sending of an unsolicited communication discussing a ballot question (in the case of a web site, in the form of sending an email to a purchased list or any other type where people did not ask to receive the message).

    As I indicated above, you need to substitute "of a sent communication from" for "where an improper post appears on." As we all well know, nothing prohibits exactly what you describe from taking place using the publicly-funded WPS web site (the Superintendent having reacted quickly, with subsequent support of his reaction from the School Committee).
    Sorry, but I was confused by your continued (and continuing) references to “using a web site to send a communication”. Since a web site can’t actually be used to send a communication, I assumed – incorrectly – that you were referring to the posting of information on that site. I now see that what you meant is the sending of an email message whose source is a mailbox associated with a registered domain name; the fact that there is also a web site associated with that domain name is irrelevant to your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    Completely untrue. OCPF-92-02 allows exactly the posting you describe. What it prohibits is the sending of an unsolicited communication (an email, for instance) announcing that posting.
    The diversion into OCPF interpretive bulletins has been interesting, but as Mr. Perlman points out, they are simply guidelines with no legal weight. More importantly, they are irrelevant to this discussion. You have repeatedly stated that nothing will ever be posted on the private WSC site that couldn’t legally be posted on the public WPS site. Taking you at your word, that means that nothing would be lost in terms of WSC’s ability to communicate and advocate for Wayland’s Public Schools by hosting WSC’s web pages on the public WPS site.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    Completely The WPS School Committee page links to the WSC School Committee page. That's a fully appropriate "preferential treatment" (not that I agree with the application of that term in this case). I suspect that you would not object if the WPS School Committee page linked to the WSC web site content hosted on the WPS web site.
    You are exactly right: hyperlinks from one part of the public WPS site to another are beyond reproach. It is only hyperlinks from the public site to private sites that enable shenanigans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    That would seem to whittle your problem down to the fact that some future WSC minority might hijack the current WSC site. The unlikelihood of that scenario allows me to sleep at night.
    "What has not happened, will never happen" is hardly axiomatic -- though the Ostrich Society’s PR department loves it. Realisticly, it’s just hand-waving.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    The fact that other members of the WSC don't currently have access to edit the WSC web site gave me an idea, however. I will provide the access information to the other members (changing the password as members come and go) and to the Superintendent. In that way, the WSC and the WPS will "control" the WSC web site (I know, I know, I could change the passwords at any time, but I give my word that I won't; presumably the WPS employees who could do the same to the WPS web site give their word as well).
    The WPS public web site is managed and funded by the Town of Wayland. In the event of any dispute, the town would have no difficulty in rapidly regaining full and exclusive control of its web pages should an employee administering these pages refuse to execute WPS decisions on content.

    In contrast, the WSC private web site is managed by you, meaning you hold the relationship with the service provider. On another thread, you state that the domain name is registered to the Wayland School Committee. That could make for an interesting legal battle should you at some point in the future refuse to execute a WSC decision on content – a scenario you introduced earlier in this thread. In this event, resolution in favor of WSC’s control of content on the private site would be neither assured nor rapid.

    As this point, your only remaining rationale for maintaining WSC’s web pages on a private site that you manage is that its more efficient than hosting those pages on the public WPS web site. I have described a simple procedure that would eliminate this inefficiency – in effect, setting you up as webmaster of the WSC pages on the WPS public site. Apart from a snide remark about my knowledge of web site management, you have repeatedly ignored this recommendation.

    The current private site arrangement is demonstrably problematic with respect to WSC’s ability to control the content of its web pages; your repeated assertions that it hasn’t yet broken do not come close to rebutting this point. The current arrangement looks bad, given the need for a preferential hyperlink from the public WPS site to a private site that you manage. Both of these problems can be easily solved with no reduction in WSC’s ability to nimbly and efficiently communicate and advocate for Wayland’s public schools: move the WSC web pages to the public WPS web site. Applying band-aids to the current scheme, like your password-sharing idea above, would just make it more rickety, introducing new failure modes that another couple of rounds on this thread would undoubtedly expose.

    It’s becoming evident, however, that your response to the exposure of new flaws will likely be more band-aids and hand-waving. That’s an unfortunate approach to management.

    Dave

  4. #109
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wayland, MA
    Posts
    235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    Well, both the "Registrant Organization" and the "Admin Organization" are listed as the Wayland School Committee. I find it interesting that none of the people taking exception to the ownership and control of the WSC web site chose to indicate that simple fact.
    Maybe, like me, they never thought to look. Maybe they looked and saw it, but didn't want to undermine their already tenuous arguments. So far, unable to come up with a logical, legal, or ethical complaint, the best they've been able to do is repeat the weak "I don't like like it, it's bad, but I can't articulate a convincing reason why" line of attack.
    More hand-waving.

    Here’s the registration information from the WhoIs database:

    Domain Name:WAYLANDSCHOOLCOMMITTEE.ORG
    Created On:09-Mar-2002 18:03:19 UTC
    Last Updated On:06-May-2008 00:27:43 UTC
    Registrant Name:Jeff Dieffenbach
    Registrant Organization:Wayland School Committee
    Registrant Street1:16 Pleasant Street
    Registrant Street2:
    Registrant Street3:
    Registrant City:Wayland
    Registrant State/Province:MA
    Registrant Postal Code:01778
    Registrant Country:US
    Registrant Phone:+1.5086551196
    Registrant Phone Ext.:
    Registrant FAX:
    Registrant FAX Ext.:
    Registrant Email:dieffenbach@alum.mit.edu
    Admin Name:Jeff Dieffenbach
    Admin Organization:Wayland School Committee
    Admin Street1:16 Pleasant Street
    Admin Street2:
    Admin Street3:
    Admin City:Wayland
    Admin State/Province:MA
    Admin Postal Code:01778
    Admin Country:US
    Admin Phone:+1.5086551196
    Admin Phone Ext.:
    Admin FAX:
    Admin FAX Ext.:
    Admin Email:dieffenbach@alum.mit.edu

    You are both the registrant and the administrator; that’s your name, your address, your phone number, and your email address in the domain's registration and administration records. To verify this, see
    http://switchboard.intelius.com/resu...ffenbach&qs=MA

    While the Registrant Organization and Admin Organization are specified as Wayland School Committee, this hardly ensures that WSC could rapidly gain control of content on the site should there be a future dispute over content. As the administrator, you could change the Registrant Organization and Admin Organization at any time. My money would be on you to prevail in any such dispute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    To be fair to Dave Bernstein, he did eventually manage a novel line of thinking about a highly unlikely event: *IF* a future minority of the WSC managed to hijack the site and use it improperly (most likely, to send an unsolicited communication regarding a ballot question), the majority of the WSC would not have a legal recourse to correct the site. (Pretty cool how I "quadruple emphasized" the "if," huh? [grin])
    The assertion with which I joined this thread was that the hyperlink from the public WPS web page to the private WSC site that you manage is inappropriate. During the ensuing discussion, you revealed the potential for WSC to lose control over the content of its web site should you refuse to execute a decision. This is an all-too-common pattern: the more closely you examine a poorly-designed system, the more flaws you find. Sometimes, a flaw you expose is worse than the one with which you started --as may be the case here.

    Dave

  5. #110
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wayland, MA
    Posts
    235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    People who've managed to make it through the 117 posts of this thread, many relating to the Wayland School Committee's official web site, may find this post to be of interest.
    You may also find this response of interest.

    Dave

  6. #111
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Wayland MA
    Posts
    1,431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Bernstein View Post
    You are both the registrant and the administrator; that’s your name, your address, your phone number, and your email address in the domain's registration and administration records.
    If the process isn't overly cumbersome (for instance, requiring the services of a notary public, or a DNA sample), I'll look into changing the address, phone number, and email address over to those of the Wayland Public Schools. I'll leave my name, as I'm both the one who registered and the one who administers. I wouldn't want to mislead anyone.

    I'm so relieved that our planets will now finally be fully in alignment. [grin]
    Last edited by Jeff Dieffenbach; 07-14-2008 at 06:25 AM. Reason: Improved phraseology

  7. #112
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Wayland MA 463 Old Conn Path
    Posts
    382

    Default Jeff while your at it...

    Instead of turning over the registration to the members of the SC who are dynamic and are potentially ever changing (and would not alleviate the basic problem of private-to-public hyperlinkage on a site that advocates for ballot questions that us public money to do so..)

    JUST TURN OVER THE REGISTER TO THE
    Town of Wayland Massachusetts and then we're DONE talking about this.

    Oh and don't worry, I don't mind my tax dollars paying that $120 / year for registration and bandwidth and I don't mind my tax dollars paying for the time of a TOWN EMPLOYEE updating the site as per the OPEN MEETING decisions of the SC.

  8. #113
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wayland, MA
    Posts
    235

    Default

    And so your pattern repeats again. First, some belligerent hand-waving:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    Well, both the "Registrant Organization" and the "Admin Organization" are listed as the Wayland School Committee. I find it interesting that none of the people taking exception to the ownership and control of the WSC web site chose to indicate that simple fact.

    Maybe, like me, they never thought to look. Maybe they looked and saw it, but didn't want to undermine their already tenuous arguments. So far, unable to come up with a logical, legal, or ethical complaint, the best they've been able to do is repeat the weak "I don't like it, it's bad, but I can't articulate a convincing reason why" line of attack.
    Then after your hand-waving is exposed as utter – excuse my politeness – nonsense, comes the band-aid:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    If the process isn't overly cumbersome (for instance, requiring the services of a notary public, or a DNA sample), I'll look into changing the address, phone number, and email address over to those of the Wayland Public Schools. I'll leave my name, as I'm both the one who registered and the one who administers. I wouldn't want to mislead anyone.
    And you conclude without an ounce of sheepishness or sincerity:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    I'm so relieved that our planets will now finally be fully in alignment.
    You bring to mind that old chestnut about newly-minted MBAs: Rarely correct, but never in doubt.

    The practical way to assure WSC’s control over the content of its web pages is for those web pages to be hosted on the WPS public site. Bob and weave all you like; you’re fooling no one.

    Dave

  9. #114
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wayland, MA
    Posts
    235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    People who've managed to make it through the 117 posts of this thread, many relating to the Wayland School Committee's official web site, may find this post to be of interest.
    And so your pattern repeats again. First, some belligerent hand-waving:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    Well, both the "Registrant Organization" and the "Admin Organization" are listed as the Wayland School Committee. I find it interesting that none of the people taking exception to the ownership and control of the WSC web site chose to indicate that simple fact.

    Maybe, like me, they never thought to look. Maybe they looked and saw it, but didn't want to undermine their already tenuous arguments. So far, unable to come up with a logical, legal, or ethical complaint, the best they've been able to do is repeat the weak "I don't like it, it's bad, but I can't articulate a convincing reason why" line of attack.
    Then after your hand-waving is exposed as utter – excuse my politeness – nonsense, comes the band-aid:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    If the process isn't overly cumbersome (for instance, requiring the services of a notary public, or a DNA sample), I'll look into changing the address, phone number, and email address over to those of the Wayland Public Schools. I'll leave my name, as I'm both the one who registered and the one who administers. I wouldn't want to mislead anyone.
    And you conclude without an ounce of sheepishness or sincerity:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    I'm so relieved that our planets will now finally be fully in alignment.
    You bring to mind that old chestnut about newly-minted MBAs: Rarely correct, but never in doubt.

    The practical way to assure WSC’s control over the content of its web pages is for those web pages to be hosted on the WPS public site. Bob and weave all you like; you’re fooling no one.

    Dave

  10. #115
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Wayland MA
    Posts
    1,431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Bernstein View Post
    And you conclude without an ounce of sheepishness or sincerity:

    Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach
    I'm so relieved that our planets will now finally be fully in alignment.
    You misquoted me. Here's what I wrote:

    I'm so relieved that our planets will now finally be fully in alignment. [grin]

    My inclusion of "[grin]" was a signal that I wasn't shooting for sincerity, but rather, levity. Whether I hit that mark, I'll leave to others.

    As for sheepishness, I haven't been aiming for that. And that concludes my strained target-shooting metaphor.

  11. #116
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Wayland MA
    Posts
    1,431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanJReiss View Post
    The [www.waylandschoolcommittee.org] site has the direct name of an official town committee and one that he [Jeff Dieffenbach] is on and has been chair of. The site collects email address's (albeit with an opt out).
    The site does no such thing. It collects email addresses with an explicit opt-in. That's an important distinction.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanJReiss View Post
    The site contains a lengthy and carefully crafted disclaimer to make it more palatable with its link to www.wayland.ma.us and finally the site is well known to advocate for ballot questions.
    What is wrong with the disclaimer being either lengthy (if 22 words rises to that level) or carefully crafted?
    Last edited by Jeff Dieffenbach; 07-15-2008 at 11:56 AM. Reason: Typo corrected

  12. #117
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Wayland MA
    Posts
    1,431

    Default

    Dual-posting can cause confusion (your post 121 above is identical to this post of yours in another thread). My response to your dual posts is on that other thread as well--I won't repeat it here.

  13. #118
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wayland, MA
    Posts
    235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    Dual-posting can cause confusion (your post 121 above is identical to this post of yours in another thread). My response to your dual posts is on that other thread as well--I won't repeat it here.
    Anyone reading this thread already knows (or can easily confirm) that you initiated the dual posting. You posted this on another thread where I was not a participant. You then posted a reference to it on this thread.

    If you're concerned about the confusion caused by dual posting, then why did you initiate it?

    Dave

  14. #119
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wayland, MA
    Posts
    235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    You misquoted me. Here's what I wrote:

    I'm so relieved that our planets will now finally be fully in alignment. [grin]

    My inclusion of "[grin]" was a signal that I wasn't shooting for sincerity, but rather, levity. Whether I hit that mark, I'll leave to others.

    As for sheepishness, I haven't been aiming for that. And that concludes my strained target-shooting metaphor.
    When I characterized your response as being "...without an ounce of sheepishness or sincerity", I was referring to what you wrote, not your intent. By saying that you didn't intend to express sincerity or regret, you confirm the characterization as accurate.

    Dave

  15. #120
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Wayland MA
    Posts
    1,431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Bernstein View Post
    Anyone reading this thread already knows (or can easily confirm) that you initiated the dual posting. You posted this on another thread where I was not a participant. You then posted a reference to it on this thread.

    If you're concerned about the confusion caused by dual posting, then why did you initiate it?
    At the risk of being pedantic, I'll point out that there's a fundamental difference between *referencing* a post that's elsewhere and *repeating* a post that's elsewhere.

    In the former case (*my* transgression), I was attempting to address a point relevant to both threads in a *single* location so that replies could be consolidated.

    In the latter case (*your* transgression), you force a responder to either respond twice or run the risk that people think you aren't responding in one of the instances.

    Now, some might tell me that even my one post was one too many ... [grin]

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •