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Thread: Obama v. McCain

  1. #16
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    Default Good numbers v. ? numbers

    I'm not aware of any of these electoral polling folks you mentioned as sources. I'm afraid I like to stick to one source that was proven to be the most accurate in last two elections. Call me a stickler on that, but sites maintained by a liberal in a treehouse, one in a shed and perhaps 3 in a basement next to the furnance doesn't give me much faith (wide smile).
    I'll stick to Rasmussen:
    Today, the Rasmussen Reports Balance of Power Calculator shows Virginia shifting from “Leans Republican” to “Toss-Up” and Colorado shifting from “Toss-Up” to “Leans Democrat.” With these changes, Obama now leads in states with 200 Electoral College votes while McCain leads in states with 174 votes. When leaners are included, it’s Obama 293, McCain 227.
    It's real close before Obama has to answer off the cuff and think on his feet. Have you seen youtubes's videos of his answers when he is not on script - very painful to watch.

  2. #17
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    Default Faith

    I'm wading into this a bit late, but I thought this insight from that wacko lefty publication Rasmussen Reports (hey, wait a minute...) could give some perspective on Poblano from 538.com:

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...hirtyeight_com

    Rasmussen Reports is pleased to announce that it will be including poll averages from FiveThirtyEight.com in its Balance of Power Calculator.

    FiveThirtyEight.com has developed a model for averaging state-by-state polls based upon the timing of the poll, the reliability of the polling firm, and other factors. The site’s name comes from the total number of Electoral College votes available to the Presidential candidates. Rasmussen Reports will aggregate the FiveThirtyEight.com averages and other data to provide a comprehensive assessment of the state-by-state race for the White House.

    Scott Rasmussen, President of Rasmussen Reports, noted that “Nate Silver and fivethirtyeight.com are a great example of how the online community is improving election coverage. His quantitative approach is a welcome addition to the debate and a valuable resource for any serious electoral analyst or armchair campaign manager.”
    My reason for posting, though, is for your comment on Obama's "unscripted" moments. Are you saying that his gaffes are somehow worse than McCain's? Really? And the last 8 years of George Bush's? Really??

  3. #18
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Grasso View Post
    My reason for posting, though, is for your comment on Obama's "unscripted" moments. Are you saying that his gaffes are somehow worse than McCain's? Really? And the last 8 years of George Bush's? Really??
    Yeah, I found this a little hard to fathom, too.
    After 8 years of perhaps the worst public speaker in U.S. presidential history, it's strange to think that ANYbody could look bad by comparison.

    In terms of Obama in particular, here's how I first heard of him.
    About 3 or 4 years ago, long before anyone was talking about who'd be running for president and before I'd ever heard of Barrack Obama, I heard a man being interviewed on NPR that was by far the most intelligent and eloquent speaker I've heard for many years. As the interview progressed, I kept thinking two simultaneous thoughts:
    1. This man should run for president.
    2. Who IS this guy?

    As they wrapped up the interview, I discovered it was someone I'd never heard of before - Barrack Obama.

    Whatever you're seeing on YouTube must be from some McCain supporters, where they've taken the worst of his worst and spliced it together in order to give people the impression he's an idiot.

    He is far from an idiot.

    McCain is no idiot either, of course. But he is far too closely aligned with the aforementioned worst public speaking president in U.S. history to give any glimmer of hope of real change.
    John Flaherty

    Any views expressed are NOT mine alone.
    Wayland Transparency - Facts Without Spin
    http://www.waylandtransparency.com/

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOHN TOTO View Post
    When leaners are included, it’s Obama 293, McCain 227.
    It's real close before
    I'm not convinced that 293-227 is "real close" (recognizing that electoral "leads" at this point aren't historically indicative of a whole lot).

    Quote Originally Posted by JOHN TOTO View Post
    Obama has to answer off the cuff and think on his feet. Have you seen youtubes's videos of his answers when he is not on script - very painful to watch.
    There are head-to-head comparisons in which McCain comes out on top of Obama, but speaking style/effectiveness doesn't immediately come to mind as one such example. Forget "off script"--McCain can be painful to watch when he is *on* script--he's simply not a natural.

  5. #20
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    Default Homeland Terrorism and Iraq War

    Its my theory that we haven't been hit by significant terrorist acts because of our overseas wars. Here is my thinking, nothing and I mean nothing stops the suicide bombers from strapping on explosives and visiting the American malls. In fact, I'm somewhat surprised that this hasn't happened already. Our borders are like easily penetrable and the explosives and easily and readily available to those who want them domestically.

    The reason why this isn't happening is because if they were to suicide bomb our malls then it would galvanize the American people into a unified war machine, the B-2's and nuclear subs would get their orders, the draft would be re-instituted and the US would go into a war economy mode like it did in 1942. In fact, we were on the verge of doing that just after 911 but our actions in Afganistan eased off that pressure value.

    The lives that were lost in Iraq did have multiple purposes... this was one of them. War is terrible but you have to be prepared for it. I like McCain because the future of the US and the world will be war one way or the other into the near future and McCain is best suited to handle it.

    I know Jeff... you won't agree with this.

  6. #21
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    Actually, Alan, I agree with your premise. When attacked, one should defend oneself by whatever means necessary and effective.

    For that reason, when Saudi Arabian terrorists attacked us, then retreated to Afghanistan, going after them in Iraq made perfect sense. Oh, wait ...

  7. #22
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    Default Why Iraq?

    I am glad you brought up that war paradox.. I'm not defending us going into Iraq at all but I will tell you that under the premise that nuclear, bio and chemical weapons were in the hands of Saddam, I was all for it. Now it is true that none of these were discovered as smoking guns so one might come to the conclusion that we were ill advised to have gone into Iraq.

    Another very plausible theory is that the WMD were hidden and then left the country to Syria etc.. and we could not find them. Are you ready to argue that you absolutely know that those WMD were never there and Saddam didn't dispatch them elsewhere? So did Bush lie? Or did he just not handle it right? Either way, we have this war now and I'm not going to put those sins (if in fact they were sins) on McCain's head. I've studied his military and service record and he seems to be a straight shooter (no pun here at all).

    I'm just saying that war is in our future one way or the other and to get through this, I'd rather have McCain over Obama or Hillary or Obama/Hillary at the com.

    But I'm glad we agree on the theory of swift and determined self-defense.

  8. #23
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    Default Style V. Substance

    I happen to agree that McCain can come off a bit unnatural in his presentation. He does need work on that. But, he has that folksy way that plays so well in rural and non-coastal/non-big-city America. Obama is expected to speak well and so much of his appeal is style. When he does not it is shocking.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanJReiss View Post
    I am glad you brought up that war paradox.. I'm not defending us going into Iraq at all but I will tell you that under the premise that nuclear, bio and chemical weapons were in the hands of Saddam, I was all for it. Now it is true that none of these were discovered as smoking guns so one might come to the conclusion that we were ill advised to have gone into Iraq.

    Another very plausible theory is that the WMD were hidden and then left the country to Syria etc.. and we could not find them. Are you ready to argue that you absolutely know that those WMD were never there and Saddam didn't dispatch them elsewhere? So did Bush lie? Or did he just not handle it right? Either way, we have this war now and I'm not going to put those sins (if in fact they were sins) on McCain's head. I've studied his military and service record and he seems to be a straight shooter (no pun here at all).

    I'm just saying that war is in our future one way or the other and to get through this, I'd rather have McCain over Obama or Hillary or Obama/Hillary at the com.

    But I'm glad we agree on the theory of swift and determined self-defense.
    Alan, I'm curious, what's your take on how the U.S. should comfront Iran, North Korea, and even China, all of whom arguably pose more of a threat than Iraq now just as they did when Bush et.al. cobbled together their WMD story following September 11.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOHN TOTO View Post
    I happen to agree that McCain can come off a bit unnatural in his presentation. He does need work on that. But, he has that folksy way that plays so well in rural and non-coastal/non-big-city America. Obama is expected to speak well and so much of his appeal is style. When he does not it is shocking.
    Similarly, then, it's a shocking knock on alleged national security expert McCain when he repeatedly confuses key players in the Middle East, correct?

    I guess that I don't agree that a lower standard equates to a lower expectation.

  11. #26
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanJReiss View Post
    Its my theory that we haven't been hit by significant terrorist acts because of our overseas wars. Here is my thinking, nothing and I mean nothing stops the suicide bombers from strapping on explosives and visiting the American malls. In fact, I'm somewhat surprised that this hasn't happened already. Our borders are like easily penetrable and the explosives and easily and readily available to those who want them domestically.

    The reason why this isn't happening is because if they were to suicide bomb our malls then it would galvanize the American people into a unified war machine, the B-2's and nuclear subs would get their orders, the draft would be re-instituted and the US would go into a war economy mode like it did in 1942. In fact, we were on the verge of doing that just after 911 but our actions in Afganistan eased off that pressure value.

    The lives that were lost in Iraq did have multiple purposes... this was one of them. War is terrible but you have to be prepared for it. I like McCain because the future of the US and the world will be war one way or the other into the near future and McCain is best suited to handle it.
    With all due respect to the poster, this is simply absurd. I'm not sure where to start. Parallels between World War II and whatever it is we are doing in response to 9/11 exist only in the minds who romanticize war as a "great noble purpose." So if terrorists were to explode bombs in shopping malls, the immediate result would be to reinstate the draft? Which country would we be invading anyway? Which "country" attacked the US on 9/11? How much more could we mobilize our defenses? And nuclear bombs? Is this what McCain is "best suited to handle?" Thanks, but I've had my fill of delusional presidents lately.

    It is true that the US has not had a "significant" terrorist incident since our military forays in Afghanistan and Iraq. But whatever weak correlation can be drawn there is not causation. Great Britain fought side by side in each of those conflicts but suffered terrorist attacks anyway. Spain suffered as well. I do not believe our misadventures in Iraq and Guantanamo Bay have reduced the number of our adversaries; in fact they have increased them but they are not nation-states to invade (where do all the troops come from again to do this?).

    I also think it's worth investigating why the US does not suffer "homegrown" terrorist incidents. I think it has a lot to do with how inclusive US society is as compared to the nationalist tendencies of European countries. The feelings of alienation and anger which breed willing volunteers to violence is prevalent among Arab/Muslim communities in France, Germany, the UK, etc. Although the US does suffer from economic class inequities, we tend not to isolate those classes as "un-American" (save for the right-wing radio gasbags), and striving for higher economic achievment is seen as a common goal.

    In sum, I think that "the war against terror" lends itself not to bloated and ill-directed military adventures, but rather to collaborative international policing and an aggressive defense of civil liberties at home and abroad.

  12. #27
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    Default

    I'm not sure that "folksy appeal" is a great way to describe McCain's temperment. I think we're going to be treated to enough doses of his real persona over the coming months that "folksy" won't be the way people will describe him.

  13. #28
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    This sums it up right here.
    If you weren't sure who to vote for between McCain or Obama, Click Here.
    John Flaherty

    Any views expressed are NOT mine alone.
    Wayland Transparency - Facts Without Spin
    http://www.waylandtransparency.com/

  14. #29
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    Default Original or Crispy

    I thought this was a pretty good piece summing up the "Maverick" McCain.

    McCain is no Maverick.

    I'll note that whether you choose Original or Crispy, either way, it's loaded with MSG.

  15. #30
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    Default Happy 4th of July and Something to think about...

    What a great 4th of July! I am so proud to be an American and the values for which it stands. I am also proud that anyone in this country, no matter what color, creed, gender or station in life upon his birth, can succeed and achieve the American Dream. Now, I look at some of the eroding values and morals and wonder what happened? I see some people play victim and not put their nose to the grindstone to work hard to move up the ladder. They expect handouts and refuse to take the blame for their own bad choices, while perpetuating the cycle with their own children who will become the next generation of “victims by choice”. I wonder when this started. I also wonder what political party seems to assist with this erosion. In this back-drop I now see Obama. I wonder if his association with the blame America first crowd colors his judgment. I wonder if attending a church for 20 years where bigotry, and anti-American sermons was preached affected him (even Oprah left this church). Should one judge Obama regarding his involvement with the radical group ACORN or his friendship with people like Bill Ayers and Tony Rezko ? If McCain had these exact relationships would people think differently of him? Does Obama’s belief that the strong hand of the government is our friend a comforting thought? Are Obama’s socialists beliefs troubling to anyone? These are good questions you should all ask yourselves and research. Think about it. I know I have. Happy Fourth of July. We are lucky to live in the greatest country on Earth. May God Bless America.

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