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Thread: Full-day Kindergarten in Wayland - When & How?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Dieffenbach View Post
    I'd be interested in the evidence to support this "manage their money better" statement. For FY07, Wayland ranked 8th out of 11 peer districts (15 towns) in per pupil expenditure.
    According the the DOE website, Wayland ranked #1 as paying a higher % of our school budget to Administration than ANY of our peer towns.

    If you're looking to manage the money better, I'd start there.

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    John Flaherty

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  2. #32
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    The $400,00 was mostly bringing the 18 K staff members to full time pay and benefits. This is how I understood the amount given by Brad. Most full day K programs do not have teacher assistants at all. So we can reduce the costs by keeping the TA's part time, without benefits.
    Also, implementing bus fees will help bring the costs down.
    Sharing athletic fees with a neighboring town by combining certain sports should save athletic programs and bring the cost down.
    Bring the school model back to 3 K - 5 elementary schools should bring the full day K cost down by establishing more efficient bussing routes.

    We know Wellesley and Weston have full day K. I'll check on our other peer towns.

    If we came in 11th out of 15th of our peer towns per pupil and still don't have full day K, then we need to do more to get full day K, like our peer towns do. We'll be right in the realm of what ourpeer town do to have full day K.

    As far as managing the school budget... I'll refer you to the other threads on this website that are all over the mismanagement of the reconfiguration!

    As far as a "gifted and talented " program, it came up several times at the SC meeting...wanting to implement one...Tracy mentioned one above as well.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Flaherty View Post
    According the the DOE website, Wayland ranked #1 as paying a higher % of our school budget to Administration than ANY of our peer towns.

    If you're looking to manage the money better, I'd start there.
    That's a hilarious response from someone who threatens to scream in the face of repetition.

    Little has been repeated more on this board than your false "high administration cost" charge. I investigated and explained the discrepancy in the "Salaries" thread, starting in earnest with Post #9.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stacey Adelman View Post
    The $400,00 was mostly bringing the 18 K staff members to full time pay and benefits. This is how I understood the amount given by Brad. Most full day K programs do not have teacher assistants at all. So we can reduce the costs by keeping the TA's part time, without benefits.
    If I'm not mistaken, our current K TAs receive benefits for their "0.65" service.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stacey Adelman View Post
    Also, implementing bus fees will help bring the costs down.
    Perhaps, and this is an area that the Committee will be looking at again this fall. Note, however, that fees will require some added personnel to manage, will add to an already high fee burden in a system that's supposed to be "public," and will also drive down ridership.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stacey Adelman View Post
    Sharing athletic fees with a neighboring town by combining certain sports should save athletic programs and bring the cost down.
    I'm not quite sure how this would work. We'd be adding transportation cost. And, it's not as if our teams are short for students, such that we could share half a coach with another town. So, we'd either be adding coaches or turning students away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stacey Adelman View Post
    If we came in 11th out of 15th of our peer towns per pupil and still don't have full day K, then we need to do more to get full day K, like our peer towns do. We'll be right in the realm of what ourpeer town do to have full day K.
    For the record, we were 8th out of 11 districts.

  5. #35
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    Also, if anyone has the information handy, I'd be interested to know which of our peer towns have full day K: Acton, Belmont, Boxborough, Brookline, Carlisle, Concord, Dover, Lexington, Lincoln, Needham, Sherborn, Sudbury, Wayland, Wellesley, Weston.
    Jeff, you've been on the SC for 8+ years and you don't know this? I thought full-day K was already being "investigated"?
    Last edited by Paul Grasso; 09-27-2008 at 07:02 PM. Reason: formatting

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Grasso View Post
    Jeff, you've been on the SC for 8+ years and you don't know this? I thought full-day K was already being "investigated"?
    That's right, I do not know the answer (which is a moving target over those 8+ year, of course). Believe it or not, there are probably many questions to which I don't know the answer (cue up ski team training pass rant here). Fortunately, when I don't know an answer, I can often track it down (I think I have a pretty good track record in that regard) or someone else will know it.

    You are correct, full day Kindergarten is being investigated, as was discussed at the most recent School Committee meeting.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Baron View Post
    I read this and saw the insinuation as well -- at least the way I read it, Ben was implying that NGCC is sub-par and the difference in cost between BASE/K combo and NGCC is based on a better experience in the schools due to teacher experience/pay levels. That may not be how it was meant, but it certainly looked that way. I cannot comment on which is better, as I have no personal experience with NGCC, but my experience with Paul and his family is that their decisions are very well-researched, so I tend to believe in his analysis.

    Ben's line of thinking, that is his implication, is certainly made without any context. Lack of unionization is a good thing in many, many cases -- not a deficiency as implied. Why are JetBlue and Southwest the preferred airlines of a majority of the flying public? No unions = more money to spend on consumer experience. American and Delta's staff get paid a lot more yet the experience stinks in comparison. True, they both get you where you ned to go, but with vastly different level of user satisfaction. I see a clear parallel here.
    At great risk of incurring another of the famous Jeff Baron's now famous rants I must ask that Jeff not assume he knows my line of thinking. We all know what happens when you assume. I would also respectfully request that instead of saying what I am implying (because you are wrong) perhaps you could state what you infer.

    I have no dog in this hunt, I was merely stating a few facts and pointing out what are likely large cost drivers. The pay that a teacher receives is not necessarily tied to the quality of instruction. I have worked in schools where the staff was all volunteer and come across some of the best teachers, equally I have seen schools that pay record amounts and have teachers that are only mediocre.

    My comment about unions was meant to show that the teachers had a strong bargaining position and as a result (again) a more costly structure than what exists at NGCC.

  8. #38
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    I checked the Concord (a peer town) public school website (www.colonial.net). Right on the front page, they have a link to an analysis of full day kindergarten - both their own experiences with a trial implementation and lots of academic research. The research concluded full day kindergarten provided the following benefits: increased academic performance, better student attendance, improved literacy and language development, social and emotional development, and decreased costs due to decreased remediation rates.

    The report also includes statistics about how many towns have full day programs:
    • 60% of towns in the US have full day programs (from a 2005 NIERR report)
    • 81/92 towns Massachusetts towns in a 2006 survey
    • 11/16 of their peer towns (I assume Wayland is one of the 5 that doesn't, if they consider us a peer town).


    They also provide the outline of a full day program and an estimate of the cost (down to the dollar, shown on slide 16). The report was issued in January and it appears they have implemented the recommendation for the current school year (with a program of 3 full days, 2 half days).

    As others have noted (and the Concord school committee did as well), full day kindergarten is part of the Patrick administration's educational program and may soon become mandated. Let's learn from our past mistakes and take this opportunity to plan in advance.
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    Last edited by Paul Grasso; 09-27-2008 at 11:05 PM.

  9. #39
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    I know that Sudbury has 1/2 day K and rotates am/pm over the course of the year. They offer a program similar to BASE for those who wish to pay for am or pm coverage.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BTDowns View Post
    At great risk of incurring another of the famous Jeff Baron's now famous rants I must ask that Jeff not assume he knows my line of thinking.
    I didn't. I made it quite clear what I inferred the insinuation to be, that it was the way I read it. You, as one would expect, posted a clarification trying to make your point well known since it was unclear. Why can't you just leave it at that?

    Since you didn't, though, I haven't heard you speak in person before (at least to my knowledge). Not enough material to judge you on yet, although the sarcasm and instigation in your posts leads me to believe I could guess what I'd get.

  11. #41
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    Thanks for the insight on how you judge. I am sorry if I was confused about your comments. It might have been this that threw me off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Baron View Post
    Ben's line of thinking, that is his implication

  12. #42
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    No problem, Ben. Glad I could clarify it for you.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Baron View Post
    No problem, Ben. Glad I could clarify it for you.
    are you serious?

  14. #44
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    Not sure what else you don't understand. If it's still unclear, why not write me/call me offline? This part of the discussion has nothing to do with Full-Day K.

  15. #45
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    Please keep the discussion on topic.

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